www.sefindia.org

STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING FORUM OF INDIA [SEFI]

 Forum SubscriptionsSubscriptions DigestDigest Preferences   FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister FAQSecurity Tips FAQDonate
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log in to websiteLog in to websiteLog in to websiteLog in to forum 
Warning: Make sure you scan the downloaded attachment with updated antivirus tools  before opening them. They may contain viruses.
Use online scanners
here and here to upload downloaded attachment to check for safety.

Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda.
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topicReply to topic Thank Post    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> SEFI General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
vivek Kulshrestha
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:14 pm    Post subject: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda. Reply with quote

Unless the role of architect will not be minimize in designing/execution of the building & the role of structural/civil engineer will not be highlighted,the cases will happen again and again,& the people sorry innocent people will die in the usual format.This is the case of Ahamdabad,where the rules could be strict,but in B-type towns,where the construction activities,particularly in the buildings are more,the conditions could be said as "worsen",the builder is architect,the contractor is structural designer,& the supervision is done after completion of building,that too by the end users.
There are the fundamental degradation in the values,which sees the immportant role of structural designer/civil engineer in building construction.But now the time is there to restrict the role of architect in building design & enhance the role of civil engineer/structural designer by the laws,which could be followed strictly particularly in the local bodies.
Vivek Kulshrestha

--- On Fri, 28/1/11, VPandya <forum@sefindia.org> wrote:
Quote:

From: VPandya <forum@sefindia.org>
Subject: [SEFI] Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda.
To: announcement@sefindia.org
Date: Friday, 28 January, 2011, 7:09 PM

           Dear SEFIN'S,

Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmedabad, killing 5 people and injuring many.
One of our SEFIN member from Gujarat, claimed that Gujarat has the best building plan checks in India. Human error is possible in the best building inspection department. But this collapse seen on TV looks like a house of playing cards failed.
I can not say more without having a professional engineers report but this kind
of collapse is a WAKE-UP CALL for us who are in this profession of Building Design
and Structural Engineering. Three months back we had similar story in Delhi where 80 people died. How many more? How to stop this?

Regards.

Vasudeo Pandya
Structural Engineer
     



     


Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hameed mohamed younus
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:13 pm    Post subject: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda. Reply with quote

We Indian took the Free India as free in india  
Ghandijee gave his life for freedom – we are enjoying the freedom in all aspects

You mentioned design engineer responsibility – I don’t think all of the one to five floor construction take the service of the design engineer with structural engineers consultation
The layouit is the most import drawing which all concerned and are available from the foundation to the accupation
May be for the permit they make and never to be seen at the site or referred by the consruction foremen – the supervisor never shows drawing to the actual workers

It was not pasted on the walls for reference  

Hameed



From: Vishal_Desai [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 3:34 PM
To: announcement@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda.


Dear all, being a structural engineer I believe it is the responsibility of the designer to supervise if his designs are being executed according to the drawings and construction quality is maintained. Blaming the contractors is not a solution. Rather than taking 10 different jobs and not supervising any it is more practical to take fees for supervision and appoint someone who will keep quality check. This system will prove beneficial to even the contractors who sometimes are not strong technically.Regards,Vishal Desai.
- from VodafoneFrom: "PRADIPTA MOHAPATRA"
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 15:50:18 +0530
To:
ReplyTo: announcement@sefindia.org (announcement@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda.

The collapse during construction indicates 01. Design failure due to foundation on soil 02.The failure of the scaffolding perpetuating the collapse. 03. An accident of sort causing the failure of one or more columns at the Ground level. All these raises a question can Govt.control Private Construction ,is a Structural Engineer given free hands to oversee all the works, or the construction is in the hands of General people who donot take Enginnering seriously! This is perehaps a debate which needs to be addressed. P.Mohapatra. Structural Engineer BUILDSOL. --auto removed--

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
caes
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:32 pm    Post subject: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda. Reply with quote

True. Absolutely true. Every body Knows about it. Happening for years and will continue ........


There is no use to discuss these things among ourselves.

Time has come to take out all these things in public arena, to end user, to government, to Architects .......

Manish



From: vivek Kulshrestha (forum@sefindia.org)
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 7:35 PM
To: announcement@sefindia.org (announcement@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda.




Unless the role of architect will not be minimize in designing/execution of the building & the role of structural/civil engineer will not be highlighted,the cases will happen again and again,& the people sorry innocent people will die in the usual format.This is the case of Ahamdabad,where the rules could be strict,but in B-type towns,where the construction activities,particularly in the buildings are more,the conditions could be said as "worsen",the builder is architect,the contractor is structural designer,& the supervision is done after completion of building,that too by the end users.
There are the fundamental degradation in the values,which sees the immportant role of structural designer/civil engineer in building construction.But now the time is there to restrict the role of architect in building design & enhance the role of civil engineer/structural designer by the laws,which could be followed strictly particularly in the local bodies.
Vivek Kulshrestha

--- On Fri, 28/1/11, VPandya wrote:
--auto removed--

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hameed mohamed younus
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda. Reply with quote

Regarding the steel embeded concrete  
I am surprise to note the old building which has no steel and cemet still is is so strong – I witnessed and demolision of a market in Chenna (Moore Market) to extend the Central Railway Station
The contractor tried with hammer, pneumatic hammers and then went for steel globe and swung and hit to break but only able to crack and at the same spot a bridge which was immersed for more than 50 years in a most polluted water of india which is call Cuvam river – the sporting column for the bridge was so had it was possible only by chipping like a sculpture work

THE BUILDING MATERIAL IS ONLY RED BRICK AND LIME – THE COLOR OF THE BRICK AND THE LIME STILL IN MY MIND SO RED AND THE LIME SO WHITE – NO PLASTERING
DOES IT NOT SUGGEST THAT ATLEAST THE FOUNDATION WE GO FOR THE OLDEN DAYS METHODS??

Hameed



From: caes [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 5:36 PM
To: announcement@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda.


True. Absolutely true. Every body Knows about it. Happening for years and will continue ........


There is no use to discuss these things among ourselves.

Time has come to take out all these things in public arena, to end user, to government, to Architects .......

Manish



From: vivek Kulshrestha (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 7:35 PM
To: announcement@sefindia.org (announcement@sefindia.org) (announcement@sefindia.org (announcement@sefindia.org))
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda.




Unless the role of architect will not be minimize in designing/execution of the building & the role of structural/civil engineer will not be highlighted,the cases will happen again and again,& the people sorry innocent people will die in the usual format.This is the case of Ahamdabad,where the rules could be strict,but in B-type towns,where the construction activities,particularly in the buildings are more,the conditions could be said as "worsen",the builder is architect,the contractor is structural designer,& the supervision is done after completion of building,that too by the end users.
There are the fundamental degradation in the values,which sees the immportant role of structural designer/civil engineer in building construction.But now the time is there to restrict the role of architect in building design & enhance the role of civil engineer/structural designer by the laws,which could be followed strictly particularly in the local bodies.
Vivek Kulshrestha

--- On Fri, 28/1/11, VPandya wrote:
--auto removed--

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
akila_kherade
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:06 pm    Post subject: Civil Engineer Reply with quote

I think one needs to find out the names of the Structural engineer, Architect, contractor and buider involved in the project.
As far as I know for such small scale projects in Ahmedabad the builders dont really appoint an Architect with a B.Arch. from point of view of economy of fees.
The Architects role is usually taken up by the Civil/ Structural Engineer.
Also the contractors are illiterate people... They see the whiteness of the alkali aggregate reaction and say 'idhar ka paani khaara hai!'.
And who said the municipal engineers in Ahmedabad do the best checking!... All govt dept. Engineers are corrupt to the core.
We need the facts for this building before we generalise anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anantparghi
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject: 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda Reply with quote

Dear Sir,
Regarding 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmedabad, in this SEFian all people are worry for Quality Construction. In Surat City, I have seen Faulty Design, Even designer has 25 year experience, structural designer are providing ductile detailing as per Indian Standard 13920 But, what about ductile concrete, there is no confinement, means no confine concrete, designer has given 25mm dia. bar but, spacing between these bar is 1mm to 3 mm only, so how aggregate-concrete will pass, and same designer signature in Design PROOF CHECK, how is it possible same designer checking their design.? And still people are providing floating column also. Structural Engineering not taking care for their design, and we are blaming contractor regarding quality. Because, in INDIA GOD will save our lives for Earthquake tremor.

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hameed mohamed younus
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:32 pm    Post subject: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda. Reply with quote

I called it CLASSICAL MISTAKE – by avoiding consultant who has civil structural and architect engneers – the cost may be there – they will save not only the total construction cost but also utilization os space and a modern look which can make the building more worth for their money spent………the most important saving lifes…….

Hameed


From: akila_kherade [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 7:07 PM
To: announcement@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda.


I think one needs to find out the names of the Structural engineer, Architect, contractor and buider involved in the project.
As far as I know for such small scale projects in Ahmedabad the builders dont really appoint an Architect with a B.Arch. from point of view of economy of fees.
The Architects role is usually taken up by the Civil/ Structural Engineer.
Also the contractors are illiterate people... They see the whiteness of the alkali aggregate reaction and say 'idhar ka paani khaara hai!'.
And who said the municipal engineers in Ahmedabad do the best checking!... All govt dept. Engineers are corrupt to the core.
We need the facts for this building before we generalise anything.

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gudimetla.balu
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:59 pm    Post subject: Ahmedabad collapse Reply with quote

Dear all,

Thanks to all the previous posts by SEFI users, they posted some basic info on what had happened both in technical and general sense. We all know that the chances of a structural collapse are very little due to a faulty design (we all know that the code has a lot of safety factors). this is a perfect example of what happens if the contractor chose profit over safety/quality. As said by many previous SEFI'ans, i would like to iterate the same, its peak time that importance should be given to the civil engineer instead of the architect and quality/safety of the structure should be a given predominant importance over it's profit.

They should know that, the code does not have a safety factor for negligence and human error.

STOP THINKING LIKE MARKETING PEOPLE, BEHAVE LIKE ENGINEERS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hameed mohamed younus
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:25 am    Post subject: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda. Reply with quote

Well said Gudimela Balu Sahib
CORRUTION HAS IT OWN CONTRIBUTION A MAJOR ROLE  

hameed


From: gudimetla.balu [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 12:59 AM
To: announcement@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda.


Dear all,

Thanks to all the previous posts by SEFI users, they posted some basic info on what had happened both in technical and general sense. We all know that the chances of a structural collapse are very little due to a faulty design (we all know that the code has a lot of safety factors). this is a perfect example of what happens if the contractor chose profit over safety/quality. As said by many previous SEFI'ans, i would like to iterate the same, its peak time that importance should be given to the civil engineer instead of the architect and quality/safety of the structure should be a given predominant importance over it's profit.

They should know that, the code does not have a safety factor for negligence and human error.

STOP THINKING LIKE MARKETING PEOPLE, BEHAVE LIKE ENGINEERS

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sandeepkaushal
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 15 May 2010
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:42 am    Post subject: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda. Reply with quote

Sir  Can I post a reply  sandeep  On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:59:29 +0530 wrote >                  Unless the role of architect will not be minimize in designing/execution of the building & the role of structural/civil engineer will not be highlighted,the cases will happen again and again,& the people sorry innocent people will die in the usual format.This is the case of Ahamdabad,where the rules could be strict,but in B-type towns,where the construction activities,particularly in the buildings are more,the conditions could be said as "worsen",the builder is architect,the contractor is structural designer,& the supervision is done after completion of building,that too by the end users. > There are the fundamental degradation in the values,which sees the immportant role of structural designer/civil engineer in building construction.But now the time is there to restrict the role of architect in building design & enhance the role of civil engineer/structural designer by the laws,which could be followed strictly particularly in the local bodies. > Vivek Kulshrestha >  > --- On Fri, 28/1/11, VPandya wrote: >       --auto removed--

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topicReply to topic Thank Post    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> SEFI General Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 3 of 6

 

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


© 2003, 2008 SEFINDIA, Indian Domain Registration
Publishing or acceptance of an advertisement is neither a guarantee nor endorsement of the advertiser's product or service. advertisement policy