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on the Building Failure
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dssisodiya
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:24 am    Post subject: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda. Reply with quote

1972 act passed in parliamnent in favour of architects is the real problem.
civil engineers are the most lazy tribe .pwd,phe, irigation,highway
and all sorts of departments are full of civil engineers favouring
fool architects.
civil engineers should call a nation wide strike with the help of all
civil engg deparments and consultants to call back the 1972 architect
act and to impower civil engineers.
as a structural engineer i do not behave as beggar in front of
architects instead do my own complete consultancy and design limited
structures .
structure engineers in all part of india are greedy to work on more
and more projects and become slaves of architect.
i would like to adopt following suggestions for structural enginners.

fix a good designing rate.
directly issue drawings to the client and not  the architects who
become super structure techie and changes drawings without structure
engrs consent and knowledge.
do not take commands from architects for column sizes to flush with
walls but follow IS13920 and keep minimum width of column as 300 mm
for spans >5m(see relevant clause in 13920)
column rods should be well placed and with minimum 75 mm gap. if the
gap is lesser increase size of column.
place columns as per structural requirement and not as per locations
suggested by fool architects.
check c.g. of building (use softwares like strap which will give you
eccentricity),
if its more ask architect to change the plan to be balanced one.
in the drawings put  DISCLAIMER NOTE : designer has no role in
material selections(sand with silt,water quality, cement aged quality,
alkali aggregate,shuttering etc), reinforcement binding ,concrete
making, placing ,compacting,curing and technical supervision so its
sole responsibility of the owner to employ responsible civil engineer
to check ,inspect and supervise to get the designed quality and
strength and to keep records of lab tests of
soil tests , sand sieve analysis , cube tests
and material including cement consumption with photographic evidence
at each stage of concreting .
structure designer should work directly with client  and suggest him
loop holes in plan (educate clinet on effects and defects of odd
shapes ,eccentricity,column locations,slender column size and other
risks involved)
never say yes to architects fool suggestions for big cantis , column
less structures and never give structural dwg files to architects.
D.S.Sisodiya
Raipur

On 2/1/11, Hemalmodi <forum@sefindia.org> wrote:
Quote:
Let’s stop preaching to the choir!!

Everyone here agrees that the construction industry needs a reform and
despite the events and resistance that we have recently seen in Tunisia &
Egypt, I am yet to see similar protest or even opinion articles in major
newspapers, magazines, blogs or any news media for that matter. Do we have a
short term memory as a nation or is there any other reason why there is an
outcry and flurry of activity after any such event that eventually dies out
without any major revision?
If this is to continue, then I feel that it is a sure sign that the history
will repeat itself and we or our next generation will have to be prepared to
face the consequences.

The two critical issues are education and adoption/implementation of the
appropriate standards. We need a society of civil engineers and a structural
engineering organization that will provide recommendation to BIS, similar to
what ASCE/SEI/NCSEA with local chapters like SEAOC that form a committee to
study and recommend changes to ICC. Further, there is a need for checks &
balances, so we can hold appropriate personnel responsible for
design/construction. The municipal corporation needs to hire senior
engineers and train fresh diploma or graduate degree holders in the plan
check & review process. Then there is a need for a third-part building
inspection companies that can hire and train technicians to ensure that the
construction is per the design documents and should issue citation for any
discrepancies. The contractor should hire some engineers to interpret the
construction documents and coordinate with the engineers during the
construction. The structural engineer should perform occasional unannounced
site visits and write up a report also called “structural observation”. All
the documents and coordination shall be done with the help of the architect
that should take the responsibility of ensuring that everyone involved is
performing the requisite due diligence and adhere to the project schedule.
The architect should also be aware of the fire code and they should address
the entry & exit requirements to ensure that people can exit the building
during a catastrophic event to minimize the loss of life. Further, a peer
review by any structural engineering company should be mandatory for high
rises or any high occupancy structures (like stadiums) and critical
facilities (like hospitals & schools). There is enough room for diploma
holders, geotechnical & civil engineers, as site engineers, building
inspectors, construction management staff & plan check personnel at the
municipalities while we leave the actual design to people with appropriate
education & experience.

I was surprised to see that some people in this forum still believe that
there is some huge factor of safety built in the code, while the truth is
that there is a small factor of safety when the loads are unknown, but not
enough to cover the blunders we have seen in the recent past. The old
structures that were citied earlier have survived because they are over
designed, and if you wish to build your house with 3 feet thick walls and
create a fort for yourself with lime & mortar, be my guest. But please do
not put the general population at risk with unreinforced brick buildings.
Most of the buildings are still standing because we have been fortunate to
have very few major earthquakes. The only unfortunate result of this
scenario is that the people don’t realize that importance of ductile
detailing that could potentially save the lives and is the cheapest
insurance one can buy. The developed nations have never missed an
opportunity to learn from such engineering failures or natural disasters and
you can notice that with the immediate changes in the US codes after Tacoma
Narrows Bridge or Hyatt Regency hotel walkway collapse or every major
seismic event from 1906 San Francisco earthquake to 1994 Northridge
earthquake. Even anti-terrorism standards have been adopted based on the
events at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building & World Trade Center.

The fees charged by the engineers in India are pathetic and one should
realize that we get what we pay for. As a proof, you might want to review
that the high profile projects are invariably awarded to foreign architects
& engineers while the engineers in the country suffer financially or leave
the country for greener pastures. Let’s stop competing and undercutting our
fellow engineers and understand that there is a lot more involved in
creating a safe built environment. Stable and safe basic infrastructure will
lead us to prosperity and everyone needs to work towards the bigger goal and
raise the standards of construction.

Personally, I am more than willing to work in my homeland, but the lack of
rules and regulation and further the absence of the implementation of the
current standards is the reason for the “brain drain” as the media would
like to call it.

Note to admin: Please move this to "general discussion", so people are not
bombarded with emails whenever there is a post on this topic.








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ajaykaushal
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject: on the Building Failure Reply with quote

Dear All, I have gone through so many mails/quotes regarding respect and importance of structural engineers in profession pertaining to their abilities,fee structures and responsibilities. One thing is common to all is that It is curse to profession that we don't have any council under any Act as a platform to context and fight for our rights.As construction industry is over shadowed by architect profession, so image of civil/structural engineer is always being overlooked.Let us put together our hands and form such platform where at every single structural engineer feel secure,safe and stable to provide quality services to society.Let's work together to build a platform.Becoz' if this happens,then other problems will automatically find no place to exist.
Thanks.
Er.Ajay Kaushal
Str.Consultant
Patiala

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:06 PM, dssisodiya <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
[quote]            1972 act passed in parliamnent in favour of architects is the real problem.
civil engineers are the most lazy tribe .pwd,phe, irigation,highway
and all sorts of departments are full of civil engineers favouring
fool architects.
civil engineers should call a nation wide strike with the help of all
civil engg deparments and consultants to call back the 1972 architect
act and to impower civil engineers.
as a structural engineer i do not behave as beggar in front of
architects instead do my own complete consultancy and design limited
structures .
structure engineers in all part of india are greedy to work on more
and more projects and become slaves of architect.
i would like to adopt following suggestions for structural enginners.

fix a good designing rate.
directly issue drawings to the client and not the architects who
become super structure techie and changes drawings without structure
engrs consent and knowledge.
do not take commands from architects for column sizes to flush with
walls but follow IS13920 and keep minimum width of column as 300 mm
for spans >5m(see relevant clause in 13920)
column rods should be well placed and with minimum 75 mm gap. if the
gap is lesser increase size of column.
place columns as per structural requirement and not as per locations
suggested by fool architects.
check c.g. of building (use softwares like strap which will give you
eccentricity),
if its more ask architect to change the plan to be balanced one.
in the drawings put DISCLAIMER NOTE : designer has no role in
material selections(sand with silt,water quality, cement aged quality,
alkali aggregate,shuttering etc), reinforcement binding ,concrete
making, placing ,compacting,curing and technical supervision so its
sole responsibility of the owner to employ responsible civil engineer
to check ,inspect and supervise to get the designed quality and
strength and to keep records of lab tests of
soil tests , sand sieve analysis , cube tests
and material including cement consumption with photographic evidence
at each stage of concreting .
structure designer should work directly with client and suggest him
loop holes in plan (educate clinet on effects and defects of odd
shapes ,eccentricity,column locations,slender column size and other
risks involved)
never say yes to architects fool suggestions for big cantis , column
less structures and never give structural dwg files to architects.
D.S.Sisodiya
Raipur

On 2/1/11, Hemalmodi wrote:
      --auto removed--

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: on the Building Failure Reply with quote

Mr. Sisodiya,
I don't think you understand how this industry is suppose to work. What you are suggesting is only convenient to you as a SE. There is a reason why architects spend 5-7 years studying for their degrees. Architectural requirements given to structural engineers are for legitimate reasons. I don't think we should be blaming entire communities here. The real problem is the incompetence that prevails in this industry, from architects to engineers to site supervisors. We compromise too much and as a nation don't value life at all. Just look at how we drive on the roads.  
Anyways going back to your argument; while I certainly understand your frustration, I don't agree to your solution. If an architect gives an unusual requirement and the client agrees with him then accept the challenge and design the structure. If you don't think you can then don't take the job. This is assuming no codes are being violated.
In simple words, don't whine. And yes, if you understand your role as a Structural engineer you will never call yourself a begger to "fool" architects.
FYI, I am an engineer not an architect.
Regards,
Nav


Navneet Aggarwal
Email: aggarwal.navneet@gmail.com (aggarwal.navneet@gmail.com)
Sent from my Google phone On Feb 2, 2011 5:07 PM, "dssisodiya" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

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samantony
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:33 pm    Post subject: Today's 28/01/2011 collapse of 5 story building in Ahmeda. Reply with quote

Hello sefians,

Upto now arround 45 professionals been writing, some prof. discuss who was wrong?,some of them what  happened? some how to avoid the future collapse. Plz. think, how will this massage help in further ??????????. But we are not an authority persons to prevent like this collapse. So what would we do as a SEFIan??

I suggest that we should send the massages which contains the suggestions of How to prevent the future building collapse? to NEWS papers,president,priminister,each state chief minister, and related government bodies such as IAS officers,PWD,CPWD,Registered office,Planing authorities....etc...

So plz. each one give suggestion for underlined.  what precautions to be required???????????

Regards
S.Antonysamy
Structural Engineer 


At least they will think about it. If good politician

We'll make awareness to the people and who is the authorities to prevent.    

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Hemalmodi <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Let’s stop preaching to the choir!!

Everyone here agrees that the construction industry needs a reform and despite the events and resistance that we have recently seen in Tunisia & Egypt, I am yet to see similar protest or even opinion articles in major newspapers, magazines, blogs or any news media for that matter. Do we have a short term memory as a nation or is there any other reason why there is an outcry and flurry of activity after any such event that eventually dies out without any major revision?
If this is to continue, then I feel that it is a sure sign that the history will repeat itself and we or our next generation will have to be prepared to face the consequences.

The two critical issues are education and adoption/implementation of the appropriate standards. We need a society of civil engineers and a structural engineering organization that will provide recommendation to BIS, similar to what ASCE/SEI/NCSEA with local chapters like SEAOC that form a committee to study and recommend changes to ICC. Further, there is a need for checks & balances, so we can hold appropriate personnel responsible for design/construction. The municipal corporation needs to hire senior engineers and train fresh diploma or graduate degree holders in the plan check & review process. Then there is a need for a third-part building inspection companies that can hire and train technicians to ensure that the construction is per the design documents and should issue citation for any discrepancies. The contractor should hire some engineers to interpret the construction documents and coordinate with the engineers during the construction. The structural engineer should perform occasional unannounced site visits and write up a report also called “structural observation”. All the documents and coordination shall be done with the help of the architect that should take the responsibility of ensuring that everyone involved is performing the requisite due diligence and adhere to the project schedule. The architect should also be aware of the fire code and they should address the entry & exit requirements to ensure that people can exit the building during a catastrophic event to minimize the loss of life. Further, a peer review by any structural engineering company should be mandatory for high rises or any high occupancy structures (like stadiums) and critical facilities (like hospitals & schools). There is enough room for diploma holders, geotechnical & civil engineers, as site engineers, building inspectors, construction management staff & plan check personnel at the municipalities while we leave the actual design to people with appropriate education & experience.

I was surprised to see that some people in this forum still believe that there is some huge factor of safety built in the code, while the truth is that there is a small factor of safety when the loads are unknown, but not enough to cover the blunders we have seen in the recent past. The old structures that were citied earlier have survived because they are over designed, and if you wish to build your house with 3 feet thick walls and create a fort for yourself with lime & mortar, be my guest. But please do not put the general population at risk with unreinforced brick buildings. Most of the buildings are still standing because we have been fortunate to have very few major earthquakes. The only unfortunate result of this scenario is that the people don’t realize that importance of ductile detailing that could potentially save the lives and is the cheapest insurance one can buy. The developed nations have never missed an opportunity to learn from such engineering failures or natural disasters and you can notice that with the immediate changes in the US codes after Tacoma Narrows Bridge or Hyatt Regency hotel walkway collapse or every major seismic event from 1906 San Francisco earthquake to 1994 Northridge earthquake. Even anti-terrorism standards have been adopted based on the events at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building & World Trade Center.

The fees charged by the engineers in India are pathetic and one should realize that we get what we pay for. As a proof, you might want to review that the high profile projects are invariably awarded to foreign architects & engineers while the engineers in the country suffer financially or leave the country for greener pastures. Let’s stop competing and undercutting our fellow engineers and understand that there is a lot more involved in creating a safe built environment. Stable and safe basic infrastructure will lead us to prosperity and everyone needs to work towards the bigger goal and raise the standards of construction.

Personally, I am more than willing to work in my homeland, but the lack of rules and regulation and further the absence of the implementation of the current standards is the reason for the “brain drain” as the media would like to call it.

Note to admin: Please move this to "general discussion", so people are not bombarded with emails whenever there is a post on this topic.
     



     


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vkgehlot60
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Joined: 16 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:41 pm    Post subject: on the Building Failure Reply with quote

Dear All, I agree to views of Er. Ajay Kushal. Yes structural engineers profession is over shadowed by architectural prof fession.Many times it has been observed in adds that people ask for architects for giving drawings and details of many projects pertaining to structural importance viz: designing of hangers, underground and other parkings etc.It all happens because civil/structural engineers are not having any apex body/council of civil and structural engineers where as Architects do have.Engineers must make a council, in which some laws,by laws must be made and it must be registered under act. At present engineering profession is not even categorised as professional services.  On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 18:40:55 +0530 wrote >        Dear All, I have gone through so many mails/quotes regarding respect and importance of structural engineers in profession pertaining to their abilities,fee structures and responsibilities. One thing is common to all is that It is curse to profession that we don't have any council under any Act as a platform to context and fight for our rights.As construction industry is over shadowed by architect profession, so image of civil/structural engineer is always being overlooked.Let us put together our hands and form such platform where at every single structural engineer feel secure,safe and stable to provide quality services to society.Let's work together to build a platform.Becoz' if this happens,then other problems will automatically find no place to exist. > Thanks. > Er.Ajay Kaushal > Str.Consultant > Patiala >  > On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:06 PM, dssisodiya wrote: > [quote] 1972 act passed in parliamnent in favour of architects is the real problem. > civil engineers are the most lazy tribe .pwd,phe, irigation,highway > and all sorts of departments are full of civil engineers favouring > fool architects. > civil engineers should call a nation wide strike with the help of all > civil engg deparments and consultants to call back the 1972 architect > act and to impower civil engineers. > as a structural engineer i do not behave as beggar in front of > architects instead do my own complete consultancy and design limited > structures . > structure engineers in all part of india are greedy to work on more > and more projects and become slaves of architect. > i would like to adopt following suggestions for structural enginners. >  > fix a good designing rate. > directly issue drawings to the client and not the architects who > become super structure techie and changes drawings without structure > engrs consent and knowledge. > do not take commands from architects for column sizes to flush with > walls but follow IS13920 and keep minimum width of column as 300 mm > for spans >5m(see relevant clause in 13920) > column rods should be well placed and with minimum 75 mm gap. if the > gap is lesser increase size of column. > place columns as per structural requirement and not as per locations > suggested by fool architects. > check c.g. of building (use softwares like strap which will give you > eccentricity), > if its more ask architect to change the plan to be balanced one. > in the drawings put DISCLAIMER NOTE : designer has no role in > material selections(sand with silt,water quality, cement aged quality, > alkali aggregate,shuttering etc), reinforcement binding ,concrete > making, placing ,compacting,curing and technical supervision so its > sole responsibility of the owner to employ responsible civil engineer > to check ,inspect and supervise to get the designed quality and > strength and to keep records of lab tests of > soil tests , sand sieve analysis , cube tests > and material including cement consumption with photographic evidence > at each stage of concreting . > structure designer should work directly with client and suggest him > loop holes in plan (educate clinet on effects and defects of odd > shapes ,eccentricity,column locations,slender column size and other > risks involved) > never say yes to architects fool suggestions for big cantis , column > less structures and never give structural dwg files to architects. > D.S.Sisodiya > Raipur >  > On 2/1/11, Hemalmodi wrote: > --auto removed-- >  > >  >  > --------------

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vivek Kulshrestha
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Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:23 pm    Post subject: on the Building Failure Reply with quote

Yes,this is true & i totally agree with this,that the engineers does not have any apex body.
You know,why?The probable reason as below
When India got freedom,there were only the basic branches of engineering,like civil,electrical,mechanical & etc.who has very prominent role in the development of India,because most of the works was in the infrastructure works.& the politicians of that time has to do a very significance role in earning money via the route of corruption,& due to to the reason,they did not allowed/support to form such appex body,even today so that they can make the money from the route of corruption without any hurdle,& there could be the least raised voices.
The same practice is also happening in the current political situation.Many of my colleuges could have experienced that in the top position(particularly in govt. sector),the persons desirious or having support from the leaders are only accepted,& that only in the position.
To overcome this situation,if we will prepare the apex body at this time,definitely the politians will not allow to to stand,& either it will be destroyed or will be put in the corner.So to immplement this as apex body,who can think,work independently,the political influence from the engineering departments has to be removed first,& all the services related to engineering must be national/apex body wise,not in the fragmented manner,either in states or sub sections,which at present is happening.

Vivek Kulshrestha

--- On Wed, 2/2/11, vkgehlot60 <forum@sefindia.org> wrote:

Quote:

From: vkgehlot60 <forum@sefindia.org>
Subject: [SEFI] Re: on the Building Failure
To: announcement@sefindia.org
Date: Wednesday, 2 February, 2011, 7:24 PM

Dear All, I agree to views of Er. Ajay Kushal. Yes structural engineers profession is over shadowed by architectural prof fession.Many times it has been observed in adds that people ask for architects for giving drawings and details of many projects pertaining to structural importance viz: designing of hangers, underground and other parkings etc.It all happens because civil/structural engineers are not having any apex body/council of civil and structural engineers where as Architects do have.Engineers must make a council, in which some laws,by laws must be made and it must be registered under act. At present engineering profession is not even categorised as professional services. On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 18:40:55 +0530 wrote > Dear All, I have gone through so many mails/quotes regarding respect and importance of structural engineers in profession pertaining to their abilities,fee structures and responsibilities. One thing is common to all is that It is curse to profession that we don't have any council under any Act as a platform to context and fight for our rights.As construction industry is over shadowed by architect profession, so image of civil/structural engineer is always being overlooked.Let us put together our hands and form such platform where at every single structural engineer feel secure,safe and stable to provide quality services to society.Let's work together to build a platform.Becoz' if this happens,then other problems will automatically find no place to exist. > Thanks. > Er.Ajay Kaushal > Str.Consultant > Patiala > > On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:06 PM, dssisodiya wrote: >
Quote:
1972 act passed in parliamnent in favour of architects is the real problem. > civil engineers are the most lazy tribe .pwd,phe, irigation,highway > and all sorts of departments are full of civil engineers favouring > fool architects. > civil engineers should call a nation wide strike with the help of all > civil engg deparments and consultants to call back the 1972 architect > act and to impower civil engineers. > as a structural engineer i do not behave as beggar in front of > architects instead do my own complete consultancy and design limited > structures . > structure engineers in all part of india are greedy to work on more > and more projects and become slaves of architect. > i would like to adopt following suggestions for structural enginners. > > fix a good designing rate. > directly issue drawings to the client and not the architects who > become super structure techie and changes drawings without structure > engrs consent and knowledge. > do not take commands from architects for column sizes to flush with > walls but follow IS13920 and keep minimum width of column as 300 mm > for spans >5m(see relevant clause in 13920) > column rods should be well placed and with minimum 75 mm gap. if the > gap is lesser increase size of column. > place columns as per structural requirement and not as per locations > suggested by fool architects. > check c.g. of building (use softwares like strap which will give you > eccentricity), > if its more ask architect to change the plan to be balanced one. > in the drawings put DISCLAIMER NOTE : designer has no role in > material selections(sand with silt,water quality, cement aged quality, > alkali aggregate,shuttering etc), reinforcement binding ,concrete > making, placing ,compacting,curing and technical supervision so its > sole responsibility of the owner to employ responsible civil engineer > to check ,inspect and supervise to get the designed quality and > strength and to keep records of lab tests of > soil tests , sand sieve analysis , cube tests > and material including cement consumption with photographic evidence > at each stage of concreting . > structure designer should work directly with client and suggest him > loop holes in plan (educate clinet on effects and defects of odd > shapes ,eccentricity,column locations,slender column size and other > risks involved) > never say yes to architects fool suggestions for big cantis , column > less structures and never give structural dwg files to architects. > D.S.Sisodiya > Raipur > > On 2/1/11, Hemalmodi wrote: > --auto removed-- > > > > > --------------








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himojyoti
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:54 pm    Post subject: on the Building Failure Reply with quote

Dear Vikramjeet,

I appreciate your sentiment.But what to do ,the quacks now call the shots.
My young friend ,knowledge is power and the day is not far when it will
override all hardles.

with best wishes

from an ordinary civil engineer


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:57 pm    Post subject: on the Building Failure Reply with quote

Dear Dr. NS,



Some Failures would always occur due to Act of GOD and as long as the failures are not due to deliberate Human Errors / Avarice, we have to live with it.


As I mentioned, the total number of failures of NEW residential buildings [that is those who do not fail before it is handed over for occupation] is very small statistically speaking. 


There are, unfortunately, more failures of residential buildings where augmentation of additional space takes place.
It is for the re-engineering of such class of old residential buildings, we should suggest what protection can be given to a honest structural engineer.
We would welcome your suggestions as you are a very experienced practical engineer.


Why I suggested a mandatory INSURANCE is that there would be at least some due diligence to the process of evaluating the strength of the existing old building and precautions to be taken in design and construction of the additions.


The INSURANCE folks are very clever and legalistic to list the conditions for reimbursement in case of partial / total failures


I wish that we have a debate on what a structural engineer can or should be held accountable - he cannot be accountable for open ended situations.
For example, if the code is deficient as you have pointed out the instance of IS:875, the designer cannot he held responsible 


I feel (may be it is wrong) that corruption is negligible in USA and other such developed nations as far as residential buildings are concerned.
Those countries are experts in MEGA CORRUPTION [examples like ENRON]


Our country is extraordinarily corrupt in civil engineering activities of B & R [buildings and roads] and as cannot correct such a society, we should think of how to protect oneself by spelling out the liabilities that he is responsible


I repeat that we are fortunate that there are very few failures of new residential buildings
I wish all concerned are punished for poor and failing roads


sincerely
ARC
 

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 9:52 AM, drnsmani <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear Prof. ARC,

I agree with you totally. But you wrote "
Industrial Structures have nearly escaped this Mafia". During cyclones many roofs of the industrial buildings fail or even 'fly'. It is because (1) the wind loads specified in IS 875 is less than the wind speed in coastal zones, (2) Many engineers do not care to consider the extra load specified by the code near the boundaries of the buildings, which should be considered while selecting the fastenings.

Best Regards
 Subramanian



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Surendra S
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Joined: 25 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:10 am    Post subject: on the Building Failure Reply with quote

We are just digging the past instead of looking into future. . Recently in 2007, there was STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S WORLD CONFERENCE in Bangalore". Whats the use of such conferences? The chief guest was from Planning commission, Govt of India, happens to structural engineer. These issues could have been raised . An individual cannot do these things on his own. Structural engineers association can raise this issue with government Many of top structural engineers use their influence to get jobs and not on such things.

Next conference is in Milan, Itali. all top SE must be busy planning to visit Milan, 






On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 9:40 PM, vivek Kulshrestha <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
[quote]            Yes,this is true & i totally agree with this,that the engineers does not have any apex body.
You know,why?The probable reason as below
When India got freedom,there were only the basic branches of engineering,like civil,electrical,mechanical & etc.who has very prominent role in the development of India,because most of the works was in the infrastructure works.& the politicians of that time has to do a very significance role in earning money via the route of corruption,& due to to the reason,they did not allowed/support to form such appex body,even today so that they can make the money from the route of corruption without any hurdle,& there could be the least raised voices.
The same practice is also happening in the current political situation.Many of my colleuges could have experienced that in the top position(particularly in govt. sector),the persons desirious or having support from the leaders are only accepted,& that only in the position.
To overcome this situation,if we will prepare the apex body at this time,definitely the politians will not allow to to stand,& either it will be destroyed or will be put in the corner.So to immplement this as apex body,who can think,work independently,the political influence from the engineering departments has to be removed first,& all the services related to engineering must be national/apex body wise,not in the fragmented manner,either in states or sub sections,which at present is happening.

Vivek Kulshrestha

--- On Wed, 2/2/11, vkgehlot60  wrote:

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yogibhobe
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Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:49 am    Post subject: on the Building Failure Reply with quote

Hello Mr. Ajay Kaushal,
I wholeheartedly agrees with your view given below.
Yogesh Bhobe
Structural Consultant,
Panaji,Goa.

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Ajay kaushal <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
[quote]            Dear All, I have gone through so many mails/quotes regarding respect and importance of structural engineers in profession pertaining to their abilities,fee structures and responsibilities. One thing is common to all is that It is curse to profession that we don't have any council under any Act as a platform to context and fight for our rights.As construction industry is over shadowed by architect profession, so image of civil/structural engineer is always being overlooked.Let us put together our hands and form such platform where at every single structural engineer feel secure,safe and stable to provide quality services to society.Let's work together to build a platform.Becoz' if this happens,then other problems will automatically find no place to exist.
Thanks.
Er.Ajay Kaushal
Str.Consultant
Patiala

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:06 PM, dssisodiya forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
Quote:
           1972 act passed in parliamnent in favour of architects is the real problem.
civil engineers are the most lazy tribe .pwd,phe, irigation,highway
and all sorts of departments are full of civil engineers favouring
fool architects.
civil engineers should call a nation wide strike with the help of all
civil engg deparments and consultants to call back the 1972 architect
act and to impower civil engineers.
as a structural engineer i do not behave as beggar in front of
architects instead do my own complete consultancy and design limited
structures .
structure engineers in all part of india are greedy to work on more
and more projects and become slaves of architect.
i would like to adopt following suggestions for structural enginners.

fix a good designing rate.
directly issue drawings to the client and not the architects who
become super structure techie and changes drawings without structure
engrs consent and knowledge.
do not take commands from architects for column sizes to flush with
walls but follow IS13920 and keep minimum width of column as 300 mm
for spans >5m(see relevant clause in 13920)
column rods should be well placed and with minimum 75 mm gap. if the
gap is lesser increase size of column.
place columns as per structural requirement and not as per locations
suggested by fool architects.
check c.g. of building (use softwares like strap which will give you
eccentricity),
if its more ask architect to change the plan to be balanced one.
in the drawings put DISCLAIMER NOTE : designer has no role in
material selections(sand with silt,water quality, cement aged quality,
alkali aggregate,shuttering etc), reinforcement binding ,concrete
making, placing ,compacting,curing and technical supervision so its
sole responsibility of the owner to employ responsible civil engineer
to check ,inspect and supervise to get the designed quality and
strength and to keep records of lab tests of
soil tests , sand sieve analysis , cube tests
and material including cement consumption with photographic evidence
at each stage of concreting .
structure designer should work directly with client and suggest him
loop holes in plan (educate clinet on effects and defects of odd
shapes ,eccentricity,column locations,slender column size and other
risks involved)
never say yes to architects fool suggestions for big cantis , column
less structures and never give structural dwg files to architects.
D.S.Sisodiya
Raipur

On 2/1/11, Hemalmodi wrote:
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