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Professional Engineer Certification

 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> Past Discussions Year 2005
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iase
SEFI Regulars
SEFI Regulars


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:53 am    Post subject: Professional Engineer Certification Reply with quote

This is NOT statutory recognition. Various organisations are following
different practices which may be mandatory for their works. Yet it is not
legal. I must emphasize again that "IN THE EYES OF LAW THE PROFESSION OF
ENGINEERING DOES NOT EXIST IN INDIA".
This is not my view. This is the openion of a senior Law Ministry officicial
expressed when we were trying to draft the 1st Engineers Bill in 1991-92.
Unless and until an Engineers Act is legislated the situation will remain
the same.
R K Abrol
----- Original Message -----
Message From  <sidhudaljeet[AT]yah...>
To: <iase[AT]vsn...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 10:25 PM
Subject: Professional Engineer Certification by
IEI

Quote:
Dear Abrol Ji,
The problem is "Every one is boss" as a matter of fact every profession
has it own council, Architects, doctors, dentist etc. have their own council
to practice one must be member for that particular council, same is true in
case engineers. But after graduating from an IIT, it looks awkward to apply
for AMIE, but it is mandatory at least in Punjab as you will see in Ludhiana
corporations bylaws, If IEI has no legal powers and significance (as you
have found after working with IEI as many as 24 year) why most of
Construction monitoring agencies has such rules (given below).
Quote:
THE LUDHIANA MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS  BUILDING BYE-LAWS 1997
.       PROCEDURE FOR SUBMISSION AND APPROVAL OF BUILDING APPLICATION AND
OCCUPATION:  3.1 Essential requirements: Every building work within the
Municipal limits shall be designed by Registered Architect / Building
Designer / Supervisor.
Quote:
3.2 Licencing of Architect, Building Designer and Supervisor, their
qualification and Competency:
3.2.1 Licencing: A licence as an Architect / Building Designer /
Supervisor shall be granted by the local authority to any person who in its
opinion is qualified for the work.
Quote:
3.2.2 Qualifications: The minimum qualification necessary for licenced
Architect / Building Designer / Supervisor shall be as follows:
'A' Class:  The minimum qualification for an 'A' class Architect /
building designer / supervisor shall be the person holding requisite
qualification and making them eligible to become :     Associate / Fellow
Member of the Indian Institute of Architects
[quote]OR
Associate / Fellow Member of the Institute of Town Planners (India)
OR
Associate / Fellow Member of the Institute of Engineers (India) - Civil
Engineering.      Daljeet

iase[AT]vsn... wrote:  This is not entirely correct.
IEI certificate is NOT accepted by Govt of India.
IEI does NOT have an Indian Charter. It has a Royal Charter (1935) which
has
NO legal/statutory status in India after Independence.
PE certificate of IEI has no recognition internationally
More than 20 engineering societies & institutions, under the banner of
Engineering Council of India, have jointly drafted an
Engineers Bill which is now with HRD Ministry for placing before the
Parliament. Unless and until this is enacted, there is NO statutory
recognition of Engineering Profession in India.Any claim of such
recognition
by IEI or any other body is false and misleading.
I am a Fellow of IEI (F5909). I have been Deputy Secretary of IEI till
1984.
Total service with IEI for 24 years.
I have been closely associated with drafting of the Engineers Bill since
1989 as Director of Association of Consulting Engineers (India),
Consulting
Engineers Association of India and Indian Association of Structural
Engineers.
The purpose of this communication is to remove a lot of misinformation
about
status of engineers india which is circulating in various forums -
including
SEFI
R K Abrol

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mkmittal
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Professional Engineer Certification Reply with quote

I just want to add following point in my earlier mail :

Even BIS in NBC 2005 has mentioned "IEI "in Annexure A part-II admin.
While specifying qualifications and competence of various professionals.
I think after Engineers bill , body created by the act shall take place
the " IEI" in the code.
Manoj mittal

-Original Message-----
Message From  mkmittal[AT]del... [mailto:mkmittal[AT]del...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 11:17 PM
To: mkmittal[AT]del...
Subject: Professional Engineer
Certification by IEI

Dear Daljit , Mr. Abrol,

Both of you are are correct to some extent. Facts are as under:

1.IEI is the largest and probably oldest professional body of Engineers
in India. It covers almost all disciplines. It has a Royal charter
(1935).
There is confusion over its legal position as on date. But it has some
influence and say in Govt. Most of the practicing Engineers are its
member.
Many local bodies and authorities makes it mandatory to have IEI
membership for practice.This requirement varies from place to place.

2. IEI has acquired provisional membership of EMF. On this basis IEI is
probably thinking to start PE registration. I am not sure whether it
will be widely acceptable in India or elsewhere. But definitely it will
not be recognized by the Govt as there is no Engineers act.

3. ECI was formed by the association of several professional
associations i/c IEI. Engineers bill was also drafted and now it is with
ministry. But it seems IEI has also decided to go on its own.

4. It is also true that Association of Consulting Engineers , CEAI,
IASE are making very serious efforts for Engineers bill.

I have tried to write the facts known to me. But I do agree not much
will change without Engineers act.

MANOJ MITTAL

-----Original Message-----
Message From  iase[AT]vsn... [mailto:iase[AT]vsn...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 12:12 AM
To: mkmittal[AT]del...
Subject: Professional Engineer Certification by IEI

This is not entirely correct.
IEI certificate is NOT accepted by Govt of India.
IEI does NOT have an Indian Charter. It has a Royal Charter (1935) which
has
NO legal/statutory status in India after Independence.
PE certificate of IEI has no recognition internationally
More than 20 engineering societies & institutions, under the banner of
Engineering Council of India, have jointly drafted an
Engineers Bill which is now with HRD Ministry for placing before the
Parliament. Unless and until this is enacted, there is NO statutory
recognition of Engineering Profession in India.Any claim of such
recognition
by IEI or any other body is false and misleading.
I am a Fellow of IEI (F5909). I have been Deputy Secretary of IEI till
1984.
Total service with IEI for 24 years.
I have been closely associated with drafting of the Engineers Bill since
1989 as Director of  Association of Consulting Engineers (India),
Consulting
Engineers Association of India and Indian Association of Structural
Engineers.
The purpose of this communication is to remove a lot of misinformation
about
status of engineers india which is circulating in various forums -
including
SEFI
R K Abrol

Posted via Email
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iase
SEFI Regulars
SEFI Regulars


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Professional Engineer Certification Reply with quote

Further to my earlier response,
Architects have an Architects Act, and therefore their Council has statutory
(legal) authority.
Medical profession has an Act of Parliament which gives them statutory
powers.
Chartered Accountants have an Act and therefore their Council has statutory
powers.
Engineers have no such Act and that is why whatever the IEI or any other
body of engineers may say, their Councils or governing bodies have NO
statutory power or legal authority to regulate the engineering profession -
including certification or registration or  award of PE.
R K Abrol
----- Original Message -----
Message From  <sidhudaljeet[AT]yah...>
To: <iase[AT]vsn...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 10:25 PM
Subject: Professional Engineer Certification by
IEI

Quote:
Dear Abrol Ji,
The problem is "Every one is boss" as a matter of fact every profession
has it own council, Architects, doctors, dentist etc. have their own council
to practice one must be member for that particular council, same is true in
case engineers. But after graduating from an IIT, it looks awkward to apply
for AMIE, but it is mandatory at least in Punjab as you will see in Ludhiana
corporations bylaws, If IEI has no legal powers and significance (as you
have found after working with IEI as many as 24 year) why most of
Construction monitoring agencies has such rules (given below).
Quote:
THE LUDHIANA MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS  BUILDING BYE-LAWS 1997
.       PROCEDURE FOR SUBMISSION AND APPROVAL OF BUILDING APPLICATION AND
OCCUPATION:  3.1 Essential requirements: Every building work within the
Municipal limits shall be designed by Registered Architect / Building
Designer / Supervisor.
Quote:
3.2 Licencing of Architect, Building Designer and Supervisor, their
qualification and Competency:
3.2.1 Licencing: A licence as an Architect / Building Designer /
Supervisor shall be granted by the local authority to any person who in its
opinion is qualified for the work.
Quote:
3.2.2 Qualifications: The minimum qualification necessary for licenced
Architect / Building Designer / Supervisor shall be as follows:
'A' Class:  The minimum qualification for an 'A' class Architect /
building designer / supervisor shall be the person holding requisite
qualification and making them eligible to become :     Associate / Fellow
Member of the Indian Institute of Architects
[quote]OR
Associate / Fellow Member of the Institute of Town Planners (India)
OR
Associate / Fellow Member of the Institute of Engineers (India) - Civil
Engineering.      Daljeet

iase[AT]vsn... wrote:  This is not entirely correct.
IEI certificate is NOT accepted by Govt of India.
IEI does NOT have an Indian Charter. It has a Royal Charter (1935) which
has
NO legal/statutory status in India after Independence.
PE certificate of IEI has no recognition internationally
More than 20 engineering societies & institutions, under the banner of
Engineering Council of India, have jointly drafted an
Engineers Bill which is now with HRD Ministry for placing before the
Parliament. Unless and until this is enacted, there is NO statutory
recognition of Engineering Profession in India.Any claim of such
recognition
by IEI or any other body is false and misleading.
I am a Fellow of IEI (F5909). I have been Deputy Secretary of IEI till
1984.
Total service with IEI for 24 years.
I have been closely associated with drafting of the Engineers Bill since
1989 as Director of Association of Consulting Engineers (India),
Consulting
Engineers Association of India and Indian Association of Structural
Engineers.
The purpose of this communication is to remove a lot of misinformation
about
status of engineers india which is circulating in various forums -
including
SEFI
R K Abrol

Posted via Email
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View user's profile Send private message
iase
SEFI Regulars
SEFI Regulars


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:59 am    Post subject: Professional Engineer Certification Reply with quote

Dear Manoj
IEI is undisputably the largest professional body of engineers. But it is
not the oldest. There used to be another similar, though much smaller, body
in Calcutta which was established earlier. I do not know whether it still
exists.
The confusion has been created by IEI by claiming that they are a legal body
with statutory powers (Which they do not have).
IEI does not cover all disciplines of engineering. It has created many
Engineering Divisions (incuding the Architectural Engineering Division) BUT
a look at the number of members attached to Divisions like the Aerospace
Engineering Division (I am one of them), Chemical Engineering Division,
Agricultural Engineering Division, Textile Engg Division, Computer Engg
Division, etc will explode the myth created by IEI that it represents all
engineering disciplines.I can say this with some authenticity as I was
closely involved in creating this myth during my 24 years service with IEI
as Technical Officer/Assistant Secretary/Deuty Secretary.
R K Abrol

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