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iase SEFI Regulars
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 22
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:53 am Post subject: Professional Engineer Certification |
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This is NOT statutory recognition. Various organisations are following different practices which may be mandatory for their works. Yet it is not legal. I must emphasize again that "IN THE EYES OF LAW THE PROFESSION OF ENGINEERING DOES NOT EXIST IN INDIA". This is not my view. This is the openion of a senior Law Ministry officicial expressed when we were trying to draft the 1st Engineers Bill in 1991-92. Unless and until an Engineers Act is legislated the situation will remain the same. R K Abrol ----- Original Message ----- Message From <sidhudaljeet[AT]yah...> To: <iase[AT]vsn...> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 10:25 PM Subject: Professional Engineer Certification by IEI
Quote: | Dear Abrol Ji, The problem is "Every one is boss" as a matter of fact every profession
| has it own council, Architects, doctors, dentist etc. have their own council to practice one must be member for that particular council, same is true in case engineers. But after graduating from an IIT, it looks awkward to apply for AMIE, but it is mandatory at least in Punjab as you will see in Ludhiana corporations bylaws, If IEI has no legal powers and significance (as you have found after working with IEI as many as 24 year) why most of Construction monitoring agencies has such rules (given below).
Quote: | THE LUDHIANA MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS BUILDING BYE-LAWS 1997
| . PROCEDURE FOR SUBMISSION AND APPROVAL OF BUILDING APPLICATION AND OCCUPATION: 3.1 Essential requirements: Every building work within the Municipal limits shall be designed by Registered Architect / Building Designer / Supervisor.
Quote: | 3.2 Licencing of Architect, Building Designer and Supervisor, their qualification and Competency: 3.2.1 Licencing: A licence as an Architect / Building Designer /
| Supervisor shall be granted by the local authority to any person who in its opinion is qualified for the work.
Quote: | 3.2.2 Qualifications: The minimum qualification necessary for licenced Architect / Building Designer / Supervisor shall be as follows: 'A' Class: The minimum qualification for an 'A' class Architect /
| building designer / supervisor shall be the person holding requisite qualification and making them eligible to become : Associate / Fellow Member of the Indian Institute of Architects [quote]OR Associate / Fellow Member of the Institute of Town Planners (India) OR Associate / Fellow Member of the Institute of Engineers (India) - Civil Engineering. Daljeet
iase[AT]vsn... wrote: This is not entirely correct. IEI certificate is NOT accepted by Govt of India. IEI does NOT have an Indian Charter. It has a Royal Charter (1935) which has NO legal/statutory status in India after Independence. PE certificate of IEI has no recognition internationally More than 20 engineering societies & institutions, under the banner of Engineering Council of India, have jointly drafted an Engineers Bill which is now with HRD Ministry for placing before the Parliament. Unless and until this is enacted, there is NO statutory recognition of Engineering Profession in India.Any claim of such recognition by IEI or any other body is false and misleading. I am a Fellow of IEI (F5909). I have been Deputy Secretary of IEI till 1984. Total service with IEI for 24 years. I have been closely associated with drafting of the Engineers Bill since 1989 as Director of Association of Consulting Engineers (India), Consulting Engineers Association of India and Indian Association of Structural Engineers. The purpose of this communication is to remove a lot of misinformation about status of engineers india which is circulating in various forums - including SEFI R K Abrol
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mkmittal SEFI Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 19
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:40 am Post subject: Professional Engineer Certification |
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I just want to add following point in my earlier mail :
Even BIS in NBC 2005 has mentioned "IEI "in Annexure A part-II admin. While specifying qualifications and competence of various professionals. I think after Engineers bill , body created by the act shall take place the " IEI" in the code. Manoj mittal
-Original Message----- Message From mkmittal[AT]del... [mailto:mkmittal[AT]del...] Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 11:17 PM To: mkmittal[AT]del... Subject: Professional Engineer Certification by IEI
Dear Daljit , Mr. Abrol,
Both of you are are correct to some extent. Facts are as under:
1.IEI is the largest and probably oldest professional body of Engineers in India. It covers almost all disciplines. It has a Royal charter (1935). There is confusion over its legal position as on date. But it has some influence and say in Govt. Most of the practicing Engineers are its member. Many local bodies and authorities makes it mandatory to have IEI membership for practice.This requirement varies from place to place.
2. IEI has acquired provisional membership of EMF. On this basis IEI is probably thinking to start PE registration. I am not sure whether it will be widely acceptable in India or elsewhere. But definitely it will not be recognized by the Govt as there is no Engineers act.
3. ECI was formed by the association of several professional associations i/c IEI. Engineers bill was also drafted and now it is with ministry. But it seems IEI has also decided to go on its own.
4. It is also true that Association of Consulting Engineers , CEAI, IASE are making very serious efforts for Engineers bill.
I have tried to write the facts known to me. But I do agree not much will change without Engineers act.
MANOJ MITTAL
-----Original Message----- Message From iase[AT]vsn... [mailto:iase[AT]vsn...] Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 12:12 AM To: mkmittal[AT]del... Subject: Professional Engineer Certification by IEI
This is not entirely correct. IEI certificate is NOT accepted by Govt of India. IEI does NOT have an Indian Charter. It has a Royal Charter (1935) which has NO legal/statutory status in India after Independence. PE certificate of IEI has no recognition internationally More than 20 engineering societies & institutions, under the banner of Engineering Council of India, have jointly drafted an Engineers Bill which is now with HRD Ministry for placing before the Parliament. Unless and until this is enacted, there is NO statutory recognition of Engineering Profession in India.Any claim of such recognition by IEI or any other body is false and misleading. I am a Fellow of IEI (F5909). I have been Deputy Secretary of IEI till 1984. Total service with IEI for 24 years. I have been closely associated with drafting of the Engineers Bill since 1989 as Director of Association of Consulting Engineers (India), Consulting Engineers Association of India and Indian Association of Structural Engineers. The purpose of this communication is to remove a lot of misinformation about status of engineers india which is circulating in various forums - including SEFI R K Abrol
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iase SEFI Regulars
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 22
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:50 am Post subject: Professional Engineer Certification |
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Further to my earlier response, Architects have an Architects Act, and therefore their Council has statutory (legal) authority. Medical profession has an Act of Parliament which gives them statutory powers. Chartered Accountants have an Act and therefore their Council has statutory powers. Engineers have no such Act and that is why whatever the IEI or any other body of engineers may say, their Councils or governing bodies have NO statutory power or legal authority to regulate the engineering profession - including certification or registration or award of PE. R K Abrol ----- Original Message ----- Message From <sidhudaljeet[AT]yah...> To: <iase[AT]vsn...> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 10:25 PM Subject: Professional Engineer Certification by IEI
Quote: | Dear Abrol Ji, The problem is "Every one is boss" as a matter of fact every profession
| has it own council, Architects, doctors, dentist etc. have their own council to practice one must be member for that particular council, same is true in case engineers. But after graduating from an IIT, it looks awkward to apply for AMIE, but it is mandatory at least in Punjab as you will see in Ludhiana corporations bylaws, If IEI has no legal powers and significance (as you have found after working with IEI as many as 24 year) why most of Construction monitoring agencies has such rules (given below).
Quote: | THE LUDHIANA MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS BUILDING BYE-LAWS 1997
| . PROCEDURE FOR SUBMISSION AND APPROVAL OF BUILDING APPLICATION AND OCCUPATION: 3.1 Essential requirements: Every building work within the Municipal limits shall be designed by Registered Architect / Building Designer / Supervisor.
Quote: | 3.2 Licencing of Architect, Building Designer and Supervisor, their qualification and Competency: 3.2.1 Licencing: A licence as an Architect / Building Designer /
| Supervisor shall be granted by the local authority to any person who in its opinion is qualified for the work.
Quote: | 3.2.2 Qualifications: The minimum qualification necessary for licenced Architect / Building Designer / Supervisor shall be as follows: 'A' Class: The minimum qualification for an 'A' class Architect /
| building designer / supervisor shall be the person holding requisite qualification and making them eligible to become : Associate / Fellow Member of the Indian Institute of Architects [quote]OR Associate / Fellow Member of the Institute of Town Planners (India) OR Associate / Fellow Member of the Institute of Engineers (India) - Civil Engineering. Daljeet
iase[AT]vsn... wrote: This is not entirely correct. IEI certificate is NOT accepted by Govt of India. IEI does NOT have an Indian Charter. It has a Royal Charter (1935) which has NO legal/statutory status in India after Independence. PE certificate of IEI has no recognition internationally More than 20 engineering societies & institutions, under the banner of Engineering Council of India, have jointly drafted an Engineers Bill which is now with HRD Ministry for placing before the Parliament. Unless and until this is enacted, there is NO statutory recognition of Engineering Profession in India.Any claim of such recognition by IEI or any other body is false and misleading. I am a Fellow of IEI (F5909). I have been Deputy Secretary of IEI till 1984. Total service with IEI for 24 years. I have been closely associated with drafting of the Engineers Bill since 1989 as Director of Association of Consulting Engineers (India), Consulting Engineers Association of India and Indian Association of Structural Engineers. The purpose of this communication is to remove a lot of misinformation about status of engineers india which is circulating in various forums - including SEFI R K Abrol
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iase SEFI Regulars
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 22
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:59 am Post subject: Professional Engineer Certification |
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Dear Manoj IEI is undisputably the largest professional body of engineers. But it is not the oldest. There used to be another similar, though much smaller, body in Calcutta which was established earlier. I do not know whether it still exists. The confusion has been created by IEI by claiming that they are a legal body with statutory powers (Which they do not have). IEI does not cover all disciplines of engineering. It has created many Engineering Divisions (incuding the Architectural Engineering Division) BUT a look at the number of members attached to Divisions like the Aerospace Engineering Division (I am one of them), Chemical Engineering Division, Agricultural Engineering Division, Textile Engg Division, Computer Engg Division, etc will explode the myth created by IEI that it represents all engineering disciplines.I can say this with some authenticity as I was closely involved in creating this myth during my 24 years service with IEI as Technical Officer/Assistant Secretary/Deuty Secretary. R K Abrol
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