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Why make tall buildings?

 
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cvrm
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Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Posts: 12
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:14 am    Post subject: Why make tall buildings? Reply with quote

Dear Colleagues:

This question arose sometime back on the eC...

"We have land shortage, and hence we need to build tall buildings" is the most often heard justification for this straight question: “Why do we need Tall Buildings in India?”

Some prominent factors that drive the development of Tall Buildings are:
(1)      Sense of one-upmanship amongst owners of such buildings;
(2)      Sense of having work/living spaces in elite areas with certain PIN codes; and
(3)      Building bye-laws.
The first two factors are person/personality driven. The first factor can result in Tall Buildings that may/may not be occupied. The second factor determines the cost of buying/renting spaces in Tall Buildings. And, the third factor is seemingly the most crucial one. The carrot/coercion to make Tall Buildings in articulated in municipal bye-laws by 3 quantitative, namely (a) Floor Space Index (or Floor Area Ratio), (b) Ground coverage, and (c) concessions through FSI free items. Interestingly, the practice in India of determining the limits for these three instruments of change has been sought by the pro- Tall Building interest groups, e.g., certain architects of prominence, local government under the leadership of certain officers/bureaucrats, and ministers heading the national and state governments. Architect planners are clear that one can cleverly engineer these three quantities to allow/guide/force development of tall buildings. For instance, internationally, the very high FSI (as high as 25-30) is allowed in the premier areas of the town/city (also called the Central Business District), and the number fades away to more known numbers of 1.5-2.0 in sub-urban areas. Clearly, when everyone insists on working/living at the same place, it results in a possible business instrument for those who want to cash on it.

Indeed, Tall Buildings are of the rich, for the rich and by the rich. The cost of renting/maintaining these buildings is too prohibitive, and hence keeps out the middle class and poor from owning/renting in them. It seems that Tall Buildings are a business proposition, and not the myth of solving the problem of land shortage especially in urban India.

with warm regards...
C. V. R. Murty
..

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yogibhobe
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Why make tall buildings? Reply with quote

Dear Mr.C.V.R Murty,
You have hit the nail right on the wall in one stroke.Very tall buildings are not required in a country like ours.But here the discussions are technical in nature and the subject could be anywhere in the world.
Warm regards,
Yogesh Bhobe

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:34 PM, cvrm <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear Colleagues:

This question arose sometime back on the eC...

"We have land shortage, and hence we need to build tall buildings" is the most often heard justification for this straight question: “Why do we need Tall Buildings in India?”

Some prominent factors that drive the development of Tall Buildings are:
(1)      Sense of one-upmanship amongst owners of such buildings;
(2)      Sense of having work/living spaces in elite areas with certain PIN codes; and
(3)      Building bye-laws.
The first two factors are person/personality driven. The first factor can result in Tall Buildings that may/may not be occupied. The second factor determines the cost of buying/renting spaces in Tall Buildings. And, the third factor is seemingly the most crucial one. The carrot/coercion to make Tall Buildings in articulated in municipal bye-laws by 3 quantitative, namely (a) Floor Space Index (or Floor Area Ratio), (b) Ground coverage, and (c) concessions through FSI free items. Interestingly, the practice in India of determining the limits for these three instruments of change has been sought by the pro- Tall Building interest groups, e.g., certain architects of prominence, local government under the leadership of certain officers/bureaucrats, and ministers heading the national and state governments. Architect planners are clear that one can cleverly engineer these three quantities to allow/guide/force development of tall buildings. For instance, internationally, the very high FSI (as high as 25-30) is allowed in the premier areas of the town/city (also called the Central Business District), and the number fades away to more known numbers of 1.5-2.0 in sub-urban areas. Clearly, when everyone insists on working/living at the same place, it results in a possible business instrument for those who want to cash on it.

Indeed, Tall Buildings are of the rich, for the rich and by the rich. The cost of renting/maintaining these buildings is too prohibitive, and hence keeps out the middle class and poor from owning/renting in them. It seems that Tall Buildings are a business proposition, and not the myth of solving the problem of land shortage especially in urban India.

with warm regards...
C. V. R. Murty
..
     



     



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suraj
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Tall buildings requirements Reply with quote

Dear Eng
C.V.R Murty,
Tall buildings requirements

  1. I am in line to your contention about not preferring tall buildings due to defined reasons
  2. It does not matter whether or not, buildings is located either in ours or around globe
  3. Tall buildings to certain height should be acceptable for habitation purpose, but exceeding that shall not be suitable for residential or even institutional & commercial use
  4. It is fine to claim that certain building is tallest in world, but what sense does it make?
  5. Human psychology, construction cost & O & M cost as you stated, do not support promoting such buildings
  6. HSE should be considered first than all other criteria
  7. Tall buildings propositions should not be generalised for general public
  8. Every nation got adequate lands for accommodating its subjects
  9. Even engineering discussions do not encourage production of tall buildings
  10. Preference should be given to multilevel/normal highrise buildings say up to 20 stories

_________________
Thanks & Warm Regards
IntPE(India)Suraj Singh FIE Civil
Engineering & Arbitration

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nrk
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Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Professor Challa Venkata Ramana Murty:

I, for once, completely agree with you. Tall buildings, by their very nature, are energy intensive. The term 'Green Tall Building' is an oxymoron. If I remember well, the late Prof.Henry J. Cowan, in his book, 'Science and Building: Structural and Environmental Design in the Nineteenth and Twentieth Centuries', explains how the desire to build tall has led to structural efficiency, which in turn led to bad indoor environment quality. The bad indoor environment quality has led to very high air-conditioning demands. The energy demands of tall buildings are very high and in quite a number of cases unjustified. Hence, the decision to go tall should be based on well-founded reasons.

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Ravi.
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Dr. N. Subramanian
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Why make tall buildings? Reply with quote

Dear Prof. Murty,

Glad to see your posting in this e-conference. I agree with the following passage
"Indeed, Tall Buildings are of the rich, for the rich and by the rich. The cost of renting/maintaining these buildings is too prohibitive, and hence keeps out the middle class and poor from owning/renting in them. It seems that Tall Buildings are a business proposition, and not the myth of solving the problem of land shortage especially in urban India. "

But there is acute shortage of Land even in India. You might have seen the growth of Chennai in the past few years. All the agricultural lands beyond the old city limits have disappeared and everywhere flats have sprung up. This is the same with second tier cities like Coimbatore, Madurai, & Trichy. I am sure this phenomenon is there in all other parts of India.

At the same time people in need of houses is increasing. The total housing shortage at the end of tenth plan has officially been assessed as 24.71 million dwelling units for 67.4 million Households, where 98% of this shortage was in the Low Income and Economically Weaker Sections (EWS) segment. The situation even at the end of 11th Plan, despite efforts envisaged to be implemented, is also not projected to improve, but rather this shortage is expected to escalate to 26.53 million houses for 75.01 million households.  

Hence tall buildings provide an answer to this, though it should be affordable. Of course we do not require super tall buildings- Many super tall buildings even in countries like USA are occupied by offices only! As indicated by Er Suraji we need to build 15-20 storey buildings. Such buildings also need other infrastructural developments like connecting roads, sewage disposal, water & Power requirement, etc. Proper planning is necessary. Unfortunately in India, we have corruption, political problems, etc and as a result have sub-standard facilities!

Warm regards,
Subramanian
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