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COPY RIGHT
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Surendra S
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Joined: 25 Sep 2009
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject: COPY RIGHT Reply with quote

EXCELLENT AND PERFECT ANALYSIS OF PRESENT DAY SCENARIO BY


- Forwarded message -
From: dipak_bhattacharya <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)>
Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:05 AM
Subject: [SEFI] Re: COPY RIGHT
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)


           These days, all Govt. organisations are asking the consultants to get their calculations,designs and drawings vetted by IIT / NIT , or at least by some Govt. Engineering college. They are putting the clauses in the terms of the agreements. If you do not agree, you shall be out of the qualifying criteria for even the price bid. In today's gloomy market, every consultant is agreeing to it. So where does the copyright stand?  The funniest part of the shameless  agreement prepared by the shameless Govt departments  is "even if the  the designs and drawings are vetted, responsibilities still lie with the consultants". You do not agree ? Sit in the office without any job, sucking your thumb!! Most of the private consultants are starving, giving pittance in salaries to their engineers Engineers have their eyes always  to the outside Every other month one engineer is leaving and one joining.This the scenario. 
So who are gainers? Again the Govt Engineering colleges, charging lakhs of rupees as   vetting fees !Without any responsibiliities. So private consultants always remain as "Murga" or as  the sacrificial goat , somehow surviving with unbelievably low fees. This is how the privatisation is taking place in the open market. Many consultants are winding up.



On 23 February 2013 07:53, pcragtah forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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AandA INDORE
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Joined: 19 Jul 2010
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: COPY RIGHT Reply with quote

Kashikarji very rightly pointed it.

Certain PSU like BHEL (for whom we tendered for design of loco shed at
Jhansi) has it compulsory
that before submission the designer has to get all designs & drawings
vetted by IIT/ equivelent at their own cost. ( we were out of bid, as
surprisingly some consultant quoted total fee less than checking fee
of normal IIT ! )

On 2/23/13, arunkashikar <forum@sefindia.org> wrote:
Quote:
Client has right to get the design vetted by anyone he feels is capable and
consultant must respect his decision in this regard. He may express his view
to the client if he feels the reviewer is not competent enough after getting
the comment by reviewer but surely cannot avoid giving the design itself on
this presumption which may be on his personal experience.

Regards,

Arun Kashikar


From: pcragtah [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 11:29 AM
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: COPY RIGHT



All that is intended to say is that it ia not open to any Tom Dick and Harry
and subjected to any person not responsible enough to take on the
"assignment" of "vetting" of the calculationand make a mockery of the whole
thing. To that extent, any architect, who makes the plans under a lot of
constraints ( from so many sources - such as client's budget , so on and so
forth), cannot be subjected to such vetting who is not wanting /not capable
of understanding the constraints. To that extent, yes, the architect must
protest.and rightfully.

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:24 PM, arunkashikar  forum@sefindia.org
(forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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partha
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: COPY RIGHT Reply with quote

In Kolkata people sometime charge from 1,500/- to 2,000/- for analysis and design of a 4 story building using STAAD or STRUDS or equivalent software.
This practice simply kills the market and allow people to believe Engineering is so simple and cheap. Even a property broker also charge 2% of the price which need a small effort and no education!
Regards  
Partha
On Feb 27, 2013 1:09 PM, "AandA INDORE" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:[quote]            Kashikarji very rightly pointed it.

Certain PSU like BHEL (for whom we tendered for design of loco shed at
Jhansi) has it compulsory
that before submission the designer has to get all designs & drawings
vetted by IIT/ equivelent at their own cost. ( we were out of bid, as
surprisingly some consultant quoted total fee less than checking fee
of normal IIT ! )

On 2/23/13, arunkashikar wrote:
      --auto removed--

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anand0
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: COPY RIGHT Reply with quote

I am not aware of such a low fee of 1500 / 2000 INR but I must agree with Mr. Partha, that even property broker charge & eventually earn greater than most of the structural engineers.

It is a real fact & cannot be denied that some of the clients think our work is just copy & paste with minimum efforts.

Regards,
Anand Shah


From: partha [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:00 PM
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: COPY RIGHT



In Kolkata people sometime charge from 1,500/- to 2,000/- for analysis and design of a 4 story building using STAAD or STRUDS or equivalent software.
This practice simply kills the market and allow people to believe Engineering is so simple and cheap. Even a property broker also charge 2% of the price which need a small effort and no education!
Regards
Partha
On Feb 27, 2013 1:09 PM, "AandA INDORE" forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
Quote:
Kashikarji very rightly pointed it.

Certain PSU like BHEL (for whom we tendered for design of loco shed at
Jhansi) has it compulsory
that before submission the designer has to get all designs & drawings
vetted by IIT/ equivelent at their own cost. ( we were out of bid, as
surprisingly some consultant quoted total fee less than checking fee
of normal IIT ! )

On 2/23/13, arunkashikar wrote:
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N. Prabhakar
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sefians,

It is shocking to read Er. Partha's posting that there are people in Kolkata doing analysis and design of a 4 storey building using well known programs like STAAD and STruds, for a fee as low as Rs.1500/- to Rs.2000/-.  If this trend extends to other big cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, Bengaluru, etc., the profession of consulting structural engineers in India will be in peril.  I don't know who can stop this menace.

I am attaching herewith three of my cartoons on the same topic, published in the Indian Concrete Journal few years back, which can be thought provoking.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar
Vasai (E)



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Surendra S
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Joined: 25 Sep 2009
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: COPY RIGHT Reply with quote

Dear all

The saddest part is that we structural engineers get all the input details last and we have to submit first for execution, with perfectness in drawings, satisfy architectural and codal requirements without any practical time to work. Once the architectural drawings are frozen, structural drwinga are to be issued on following day... ie the demand of majority of clients today... 


SS

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:48 PM, SANGEETA WIJ <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           So we are back to the square one, Mr Kashikar and all my friends on SEFI……not everything but still a lot depends on the fees paid to the structural consultants….the question is what is the answer to a poor fees, no regulation and unhealthy competition? I guess, we are one of the very few countries without an Engineer’s Bill? Why are our Engineering Associations silent on this issue? Why can’t IEI take a lead and combine with all other Engg associations to form just one engg association nationally, and become the voice of our Consultancy fraternity?
Regards
Sangeeta Wij

From: dipak_bhattacharya [mailto:forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)]
Sent: 25 February 2013 10:05
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] Re: COPY RIGHT




These days, all Govt. organisations are asking the consultants to get their calculations,designs and drawings vetted by IIT / NIT , or at least by some Govt. Engineering college. They are putting the clauses in the terms of the agreements. If you do not agree, you shall be out of the qualifying criteria for even the price bid. In today's gloomy market, every consultant is agreeing to it. So where does the copyright stand? The funniest part of the shameless agreement prepared by the shameless Govt departments is "even if the the designs and drawings are vetted, responsibilities still lie with the consultants". You do not agree ? Sit in the office without any job, sucking your thumb!! Most of the private consultants are starving, giving pittance in salaries to their engineers Engineers have their eyes always to the outside Every other month one engineer is leaving and one joining.This the scenario.
So who are gainers? Again the Govt Engineering colleges, charging lakhs of rupees as vetting fees !Without any responsibiliities. So private consultants always remain as "Murga" or as the sacrificial goat , somehow surviving with unbelievably low fees. This is how the privatisation is taking place in the open market. Many consultants are winding up.




On 23 February 2013 07:53, pcragtah forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)))> wrote:
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Dr. N. Subramanian
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice Thought provoking Cartoons Er Prabhakarji! Such consultants were there for a long time! I know some reputed consultants who go to the Architect's office and do the job! Many such people are retired engineers or those who were moonlighting!

Regards,
Subramanian
N. Prabhakar wrote:
Dear Sefians,

It is shocking to read Er. Partha's posting that there are people in Kolkata doing analysis and design of a 4 storey building using well known programs like STAAD and STruds, for a fee as low as Rs.1500/- to Rs.2000/-.  If this trend extends to other big cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, Bengaluru, etc., the profession of consulting structural engineers in India will be in peril.  I don't know who can stop this menace.

I am attaching herewith three of my cartoons on the same topic, published in the Indian Concrete Journal few years back, which can be thought provoking.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar
Vasai (E)
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Dr. N. Subramanian
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: COPY RIGHT Reply with quote

Dear Er Ananda,

Getting one's design vetted by IIT/ SERC/equivalent at their own cost is impossible, simply because the fees charged by IIT/SERC will be a minimum of 3 to 4 times your normal fee!

Best wishes,
NS

AandA INDORE wrote:
Kashikarji very rightly pointed it.

Certain PSU like BHEL (for whom we tendered for design of loco shed at
Jhansi) has it compulsory
that before submission the designer has to get all designs & drawings
vetted by IIT/ equivelent at their own cost. ( we were out of bid, as
surprisingly some consultant quoted total fee less than checking fee
of normal IIT ! )




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suresh_sharma
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 783

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone had ever an insight into the design done for Rs. 1500/- or Rs. 2000/-. I had and found that they were not more than worth throwing in the dust bin. The designer did not had the basic concept of how the structure would behave under different loading conditions. The detailing is even more important than modelling and running the Staad file. All are doing design with pirated software which in some cases give erroneous results. The output of software can not be blindly accepted. The software has its own limitations.
The design done with the old version of software fail while running with new version. All this type of cheating and fraudulent practice is possible for small 2/3 storeyed buildings. Any Govt. client or those doing prestigious buildings would not encourage this type of activity.

The present scenario is that everyone Tom, Dick and Harry with little or even no experience opens a small office starts doing the practice with a view to making quick buck. At the end of the day  they are a failure.

Labour and knowledge are always rewarded.
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