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consultancy fee structure
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dipak_bhattacharya
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Joined: 18 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:09 pm    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Dear Mr. Despande,

It is the question of demand and supply.
Assignments are few and so-called consultants are too many.
Government agencies decide consultants on lowest quotation basis and then negotiate with the lowest bidder.
The project manager of a state government undertaking commented" you have got enough fees, how much more you want?"
Very hard days are now for small consultants specially.
The state governments get the services first and then say, no fund is available to pay the fees now.
Every other day , one company is coming up and the other is winding up.Many consultants/engineers are joining service for survival.
The clients will spend crores as investments but are stingy in paying the consultants.If one consultant withdraws, others will pounce on the assignments with first call of the client.
However, I encourage your efforts. Above all, the economic scenerio/activities of the country has to improve  first.The situation is serious no doubt.


On 28 November 2015 at 12:58, mr.deshpande <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           I think we should come together in forming the association all consultancies MNC's should be registered to the association and made mandatory to provide services only if they are registered to the association. Services by the consultancies should align at the rules and regulation set by the association. Anybody not registered to the association should be banned or not recognized either by the fraternity or Government. Any developer/client taking service from the unregistered consultants/MNC's to be deemed for necessary action. The association should be given powers and it should come under the wings of or recognized by Government to make it mandatory. Say for that case just as the municipal of Dubai performs.

If we work on this at least we are sure we have minimum wages to earn. And there is no deviation in our fraternity. Also not treated like donkeys by developers/Architects.

On the contrary we have,
a) auto rickshaw association
b) factory labor association
c) barbers association
d) Doctor's association
e) Architects association..... and take for it
f) scavengers association

we find association for everyone where they stand united for their well being. In this world we are only missing out structural association.

I request all seniors and members to discuss this and be more serious about it we are going to be trend setters for our future engineers.

All those who are running consultancies or working in MNC's please speak and lets call for a meeting and take it forward.

Dear Admin I request you to ping to the registered members of SEFI and members or proprietary of consultancies.

Please speak to take action
     



     


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santoshab
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Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Bangalore

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Ankur,

I have said Architects/Clients So, this applies to all horizons of our services to be given.

But, I see no interest from anybody in this heated discussion?
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srinu
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Joined: 17 Apr 2014
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:10 am    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Yes i support this On 28 Nov 2015 05:34, "mr.deshpande" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear All,

Why there is no talk about the fees for 2 years now? People have forgotten or may be they are happy. This is the problem in India people agree that there is a problem but are afraid to take action? Can we not do something about this?

Forming a association and binding it legally by government should help all the consultancies and companies, though, we generally get into the hands of Architects or Developers to decide our prospects. But definitely that's not the way forward. In a way I feel factory workers are better than structural engineers because they have an association and they come united to take action for their survival. But we structural engineers have downgraded our own profession. Bloody (pardon for my words) look at the developers how they talk to us as if we are labors!! We all have earned respect in our profession but have forgotten to maintain it!!.

Yes the competition is there nobody can deny it. But lets set a benchmark and then we should compete with each other. The minimum benchmark for the consultancy fee should be set and then, for the consultancies which have already proved their worth should charge accordingly. So that the respect for structural engineers is gained.

Consultancies and MNC's should participate in debating and finalizing this long pending aspiration of structural engineers.

Can we come together to form an association? Please people speak up lets come together as united.
     



     


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kumar2013
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Joined: 18 Apr 2014
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Location: Bangalore

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Dear Sef india  /Sir/Friends


We need the following implementations for the welfare ofstructural engineers and civil engineers



LOGO --SAVE  CIVIL AND STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS



We need Strong Auditingteam /Association with legal authority : This team himself have thepermission to review the basic of the structural system proposed by the structuralconsultants and peer review reports



This team and association has the legal permission to reviewthe fee proposed by consultant and fee offered by the Developer/Architect



This team has to develop the standard fee structure formatfor all  structural consultants and proofingchecking consultant in India and legal document has to be signed by all the structural engineers firms



This team has the right and legal permission review the fee received/quotedby the structural and proofing checking consultants and fee offered by the developersand  architect, If anything quoted lessthe standard fee format, this auditing have the permission to put penalty for 3to 4 times of the fee and that consultant has to banned for at least for oneyear in the market (apologize for first time) if they repeated the 2nd time the same, that firm has to banned forfive years



This teamhas to approve the final scheme and system  and fee of the structural consultant



   ( as munipal in Dubai )




Please  initiate thislogo and start implementing it from today onwards, so I request all structural engineerto come forwarded and make this associationfor civil and structural engineers ,  andwe will gather in week days along with senior peoples in the industry in respective state capitals like Bangalore,Chennai , Hyderabad…….Delhi








NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE,  SO LET START TO SAVE OUR CIVIL AND STRUCTURALENGINEERS





Regards




H N PRASANNAKUMAR




9945594176





From: mr.deshpande [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2015 12:58 PM
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure



I think we should come together in forming the association all consultancies MNC's should be registered to the association and made mandatory to provide services only if they are registered to the association. Services by the consultancies should align at the rules and regulation set by the association. Anybody not registered to the association should be banned or not recognized either by the fraternity or Government. Any developer/client taking service from the unregistered consultants/MNC's to be deemed for necessary action. The association should be given powers and it should come under the wings of or recognized by Government to make it mandatory. Say for that case just as the municipal of Dubai performs.

If we work on this at least we are sure we have minimum wages to earn. And there is no deviation in our fraternity. Also not treated like donkeys by developers/Architects.

On the contrary we have,
a) auto rickshaw association
b) factory labor association
c) barbers association
d) Doctor's association
e) Architects association..... and take for it
f) scavengers association

we find association for everyone where they stand united for their well being. In this world we are only missing out structural association.

I request all seniors and members to discuss this and be more serious about it we are going to be trend setters for our future engineers.

All those who are running consultancies or working in MNC's please speak and lets call for a meeting and take it forward.

Dear Admin I request you to ping to the registered members of SEFI and members or proprietary of consultancies.

Please speak to take action

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DEBASISH BACHAR
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Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:22 am    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Dear all,       Why we can not go for legal option? just like public interest litigation. peoples go for PIL in small issues. why structural engineers do not think about it? or they like to see circus and like to write complain on social media only?


On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 3:03 PM, dipak_bhattacharya <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
[quote]            Dear Mr. Despande,

It is the question of demand and supply.
Assignments are few and so-called consultants are too many.
Government agencies decide consultants on lowest quotation basis and then negotiate with the lowest bidder.
The project manager of a state government undertaking commented" you have got enough fees, how much more you want?"
Very hard days are now for small consultants specially.
The state governments get the services first and then say, no fund is available to pay the fees now.
Every other day , one company is coming up and the other is winding up.Many consultants/engineers are joining service for survival.
The clients will spend crores as investments but are stingy in paying the consultants.If one consultant withdraws, others will pounce on the assignments with first call of the client.
However, I encourage your efforts. Above all, the economic scenerio/activities of the country has to improve  first.The situation is serious no doubt.


On 28 November 2015 at 12:58, mr.deshpande forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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thiyagarajan_shenbagaraja
SEFI Member
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Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:22 am    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Dear all
I would prefer to get the consultancy fees in terms of % wise rather than going for rate per sq.ft
Percentage can vary company to company but you will not be underpaid in this way. This is the trend in gulf countries which we have to follow strictly.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 30, 2015, at 1:33 PM, dipak_bhattacharya <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:


[quote]            Dear Mr. Despande,

It is the question of demand and supply.
Assignments are few and so-called consultants are too many.
Government agencies decide consultants on lowest quotation basis and then negotiate with the lowest bidder.
The project manager of a state government undertaking commented" you have got enough fees, how much more you want?"
Very hard days are now for small consultants specially.
The state governments get the services first and then say, no fund is available to pay the fees now.
Every other day , one company is coming up and the other is winding up.Many consultants/engineers are joining service for survival.
The clients will spend crores as investments but are stingy in paying the consultants.If one consultant withdraws, others will pounce on the assignments with first call of the client.
However, I encourage your efforts. Above all, the economic scenerio/activities of the country has to improve first.The situation is serious no doubt.


On 28 November 2015 at 12:58, mr.deshpande forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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santoshab
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Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Bangalore

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Jeffery,

I would be happy if the CDC has done this job. Can you publish information available with you for consultancy fees? It will an eye opener for all of us.

Dear Members

Thank you for actively speaking. This means we are heading somewhere good.

I said we should have Government recognition and not amending the constitution no body can form constitution for anybodies fee's. All we need is Governments support to make our presence (Association's) felt. So that people are beforehand aware of the terms and making business with structural engineers.  I agree with  anjan_sen  and dipak_bhattacharya    its long way and not easy as well, until we all come together. But with this forum we at-least are hopeful. Only  a greater level of participation and commitment is required from us rather than getting disappointed and again pointing fingers at each other.

As a first step throw in your ideas as to how we can form association and register it with Government. Scale of information required is huge.

I request Senior's who are running consultancies to comment and guide us.

Can we have a different thread and make it sticky. where in we mention only the information required to form an official website and steps to form the association?
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anjan_sen
SEFI Member
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Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:39 pm    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Dear all,
Whatever may be the present condition it is a good thought of making some sort of a body of professional Consultants. The members would have legal authority to take up consultancy a be legally responsible for the designs they certify. Depending on professional qualifications,experience etc they may be classified  to take up different assignment. The fee shall be predetermined by the professional body.
Regards
Sen            Dear Mr. Despande,

It is the question of demand and supply.
Assignments are few and so-called consultants are too many.
Government agencies decide consultants on lowest quotation basis and then negotiate with the lowest bidder.
The project manager of a state government undertaking commented" you have got enough fees, how much more you want?"
Very hard days are now for small consultants specially.
The state governments get the services first and then say, no fund is available to pay the fees now.
Every other day , one company is coming up and the other is winding up.Many consultants/engineers are joining service for survival.
The clients will spend crores as investments but are stingy in paying the consultants.If one consultant withdraws, others will pounce on the assignments with first call of the client.
However, I encourage your efforts. Above all, the economic scenerio/activities of the country has to improve  first.The situation is serious no doubt.


On 28 November 2015 at 12:58, mr.deshpande forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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Shashank M
SEFI Member
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Joined: 06 Dec 2014
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:44 pm    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

​Dear all,

What I feel more important is "purification". A genuine structural engineer can understand the gravity of his responsibilities. By deciding the cement and steel he is having a direct impact on the natural resources of a country. But we see today designs done by many unprofessional, un-licenced structural engineers who are a major cause for the market imbalance, posing threat by offering inefficient services for inappropriate remuneration. First this has to be sorted out. This can be sorted out only by tightening at municipal permission for the design. In Europe for example, its not so easy to get a approval for a design unless it satisfies their very stringent codes. Hence Govt. can have a special vetting panel to approve the worthy designs.That makes the unworthy players out of the game and the market will be contracted and channelized among handful of design consultants, where there can be a possibility of fair practice. 

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N. Prabhakar
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Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 453

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:50 pm    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Dear Er. Deshpande,


I agree with your concern on this subject matter.  As Er. Dipak Bhattacharya has mentioned that it is all a question of supply and demand. The fees depends on the quality and quantity of service the consultant provides to the client.  In my opinion, no professional institution can impose a standard scale of fees for each type of service provided.  Besides, who will monitor these fees that are paid to the consultants?   Even, the other professions like Lawyers, Accountants and Doctors (private hospitals also) do not have a standard scale of fees, although their professional bodies are strong and well established.  


In our structural engineering practice, the quality of service provided varies very much from one consultant to the other.    For example, some consultants show reinforcement details of all slabs, beams and columns in a tabular form, i.e. top bar, bottom bar, bar spacing, stirrup spacing, etc. without a bar being shown in elevation or section of the structural element, which is the worst possible manner to prepare reinforcement detail drawings.  Whereas, a highly professional consultant shows the same reinforcement details showing slab reinforcement in plan and sections, beam and column details in elevation and sections, with laps wherever required,  and every bar given a mark no. and also a bar bending schedule for all the bars shown on the drawing.  Only the site staff appreciates the latter service, and for that matter the client may not know the difference between the two.  For these two varying types of services, one cannot charge the same consultancy fee to the client.   Naturally, the client goes for the cheapest and gets the worst possible service.  In the present scenario of property developer controlling the building industry, these technical details do not matter much.


Even, in the news paper advertisements of multi-storey buildings which are coming up in our metros, the names of the Architect, Interior Decorator, landscape consultant and even name of the estate agent are mentioned, not at any time the name of the structural consultant. That shows the general apathy towards our profession.  We are the most unsung heroes of the buidling industry!!!!


With best wishes,


N. Prabhakar 
Chartered Structural Engineer

Vasai (E)



On 30 November 2015 at 15:03, dipak_bhattacharya <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
[quote]            Dear Mr. Despande,

It is the question of demand and supply.
Assignments are few and so-called consultants are too many.
Government agencies decide consultants on lowest quotation basis and then negotiate with the lowest bidder.
The project manager of a state government undertaking commented" you have got enough fees, how much more you want?"
Very hard days are now for small consultants specially.
The state governments get the services first and then say, no fund is available to pay the fees now.
Every other day , one company is coming up and the other is winding up.Many consultants/engineers are joining service for survival.
The clients will spend crores as investments but are stingy in paying the consultants.If one consultant withdraws, others will pounce on the assignments with first call of the client.
However, I encourage your efforts. Above all, the economic scenerio/activities of the country has to improve  first.The situation is serious no doubt.


On 28 November 2015 at 12:58, mr.deshpande forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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