www.sefindia.org

STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING FORUM OF INDIA [SEFI]

 Forum SubscriptionsSubscriptions DigestDigest Preferences   FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister FAQSecurity Tips FAQDonate
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log in to websiteLog in to websiteLog in to websiteLog in to forum 
Warning: Make sure you scan the downloaded attachment with updated antivirus tools  before opening them. They may contain viruses.
Use online scanners
here and here to upload downloaded attachment to check for safety.

[Quality of Services] of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topicReply to topic Thank Post    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> Econference on State of Structural Engineering Practice and Education
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
va
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:28 pm    Post subject: [Quality of Services] of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship Reply with quote

Welcome to the most exciting e-conference on "State of Structural Engineering practice in India" with a sub topic "Quality of Services of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship"

I welcome all  SEFI colleagues to this important e-conference for expressing their views freely on this forum. We need to understand the country wide situation in the profession of structural engineering, problems faced by us and the probable solutions.

Deteriorating services of structural Engineers and minimum standards :

Structural engineers are supposed to be the bright students  of  civil engineering.  First choice of students for  specialization in post-graduation is Structural engineering.  Society is looking at us for good and economical solutions. But why the services offered by structural engineers are very poor and deteriorating ? If one looks  beyond the urban areas, there are no guidelines for practicing as structural consultant.  Any civil engineer  or even diploma holders are acting as structural engineers in semi-urban areas.  With their very limited knowledge and experience, they are providing the designs which are of very poor quality. With some exceptions, this happens in urban areas as well. In urban area, local municipal bodies are insisting on registration of structural engineers with some annual fees. Sometimes,  grading is provided  to designers permitting  maximum number of storeys  based on qualification and experience. Many aspiring structural engineers are not able to draw correct bending moment diagrams and are poor in  understanding  structural behaviour. They can be good at producing huge computer output and acting as computer operator. This is very serious.

Most of the times, schedules are only provided for all structural components like footings, columns, beams and slabs without any detail drawing. In gaothan area, houses are touching each other with common walls on two sides. There is no concept of open space or setback. This necessitates construction on the entire plot with columns on the boundary. Even today,  many engineers are providing half and quarter footing ( eccentric footing)  for periphery and corner columns or provide floating columns from plinth beams. It is necessary to educate these engineers on probable solutions.  

Other major reason for poor quality service is the meagre amount of fees paid to structural engineers.  Clients or architects  pressurise  and negotiating hard with structural engineer for reducing the steel and his fees. It is the  fact that an estate  broker ( agent)  is earing much higher fees by selling one flat in the building compared to fees received by a structural engineer for the design of entire building. Structural engineers are also undercutting the fees to grab the job. The range of fees charged ranges from Rs. 2 per sq. ft. to Rs. 10 per sq.ft. depending on the location , project size, etc. Even structural engineer rarely gets the promised full payment.  We can not expect wonders by paying pea nuts. Many a times client hints that he can manage the stability certificate from the market.

We need to have minimum design standards, preparation of design basis report, basic design calculations and detail drawings are expected from a  good structural engineer.    

Relations with architects :

Most of the times client is not willing to appoint separate agencies. To have one point responsibility, client appoints architect as the project leader for all the design services including liaison, architectural, structural, PMC, HVAC.  Architect is intern appointing other agencies. Naturally architect start dictating terms to structural engineers  which may include  restriction on structural framing arrangement, forcing to reduce sizes of beams and columns,  orientation of columns, omitting  some columns as per their wish. This may lead to poor structural arrangement. On one hand, client is pressing for minimum steel consumption. Structural engineer’s efficiency is measured by steel consumption ir-respective of whether he follows any code guidelines.
Definition of good structural engineer from perspective of  property developer is  " Lighter the design (steel)  better is the engineer". From architect’s perspective, a good structural engineer is  a person who listens to architects without arguing on structural framing, deletes the columns as directed, ready to carry out  any number of revisions without grumbling, does not send reminders for his meagre fees, signs the stability certificate with life time responsibility of structure without any control over material and workmanship "  

There are always exceptions to these rules and there are some good knowledgeable clients and wonderful architects but their number is very small. One should be really lucky to get an opportunity to work with such people.

Architects are charging fees on the total cost which ranges from 3 to 6%. When it comes to paying the structural engineer, it is either about 1% of RCC cost of on sq. ft basis or lump-sum. This fees is very less compared to what they are charging the client. E.g. if an Architect is getting 4% on total cost, he is getting 4% on RCC cost as well but only paying 1% of RCC cost to Structural engineer.
Therefore many a times structural engineers are not happy to work with architects but for the fear of losing the project,  they fall in line, ready to compromise the structural system to please the architects, accept less payment, even delayed payments. This generally happens in building segment. Eminent structural engineer Late N.N. Bhagwati of Bhagwati & Associates had decided not to work under architects. He founded a firm of structural consultancy and employed architects to work for him.
Structural engineers working for infrastructure projects like bridges, roads, dams, tunnels, ports, industrial structures etc. generally have better freedom for implementing innovative solutions without much interference from architects.  

We require a mechanism by which Structural engineers are to be directly appointed by client and paid reasonable fees.

Roles and responsibility of structural engineer :  

Time has come to define role and responsibility of structural engineers. We are endlessly waiting for Engineers bill. Alpa has done good amount of work for preparing exhaustive document on this subject. We need to push it at least at respective state level. There can be a state level registration of structural engineers with grades. They should be able to work in the entire state without any hassle and no need to have  separate registration with various municipal corporations.

Presently structural engineers are signing all formats of stability certificates and taking the life time responsibility of structure without any control over the construction process. Structural engineers are  only responsible for the correctness of their design and compliance to code provisions. There is no standard certification format . All the Govt. agencies wants someone to be responsible. Who is the best scape goat  for this job than the  structural engineer? Certification drafts by various agencies like local Municipal corporations, CIDCO, Town planning, Collector office, Industrial Development corporation etc   are one sided and putting whole responsibility on the shoulders on structural engineers for design, foundation safety, quality of material, material testing, workmanship, supervision etc. Responsibility should be fixed based on the scope of work of each agency. Design responsibility to Structural engineer, Supervision responsibility to PMC, construction safety responsibility to contractor, stability of founding strata, settlement,  stability of deep excavations for basement to geotechnical consultant and overall responsibility should be with the owner who is controlling the finance.

ISSE is working on clearly defining the role and responsibility of each agency in the construction project. Sample stability certificate is also available on ISSE website. We need to collectively push for implementation of these guidelines.  

I hope SEFI members will express their views on these topics. Some good suggestions are expected for overall improvement in the system.

Warm Regards.
Hemant Vadalkar
Consulting Structural Engineer , Mumbai.

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sunil sodhai
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 30 Oct 2011
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:20 pm    Post subject: [Quality of Services] of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship Reply with quote

today is age of marketing and communication ,structural engineer are
not direct contact with client they go through architect only so we
have build relationship with client and try to add value to customer
make happy with services today customer is king architect is minister
for customer with no support from govt and regulatory mechanism we
have to work hard.

On 2/8/16, va <forum@sefindia.org> wrote:
Quote:
Welcome to the most exciting e-conference on "State of Structural
Engineering practice in India" with a sub topic "Quality of Services of
Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer
relationship"

I welcome all  SEFI colleagues to this important e-conference for expressing
their views freely on this forum. We need to understand the country wide
situation in the profession of structural engineering, problems faced by us
and the probable solutions.

Deteriorating services of structural Engineers and minimum standards :

Structural engineers are supposed to be the bright students  of  civil
engineering.  First choice of students for  specialization in
post-graduation is Structural engineering.  Society is looking at us for
good and economical solutions. But why the services offered by structural
engineers are very poor and deteriorating ? If one looks  beyond the urban
areas, there are no guidelines for practicing as structural consultant.  Any
civil engineer  or even diploma holders are acting as structural engineers
in semi-urban areas.  With their very limited knowledge and experience, they
are providing the designs which are of very poor quality. With some
exceptions, this happens in urban areas as well. In urban area, local
municipal bodies are insisting on registration of structural engineers with
some annual fees. Sometimes,  grading is provided  to designers permitting
maximum number of storeys  based on qualification and experience. Many
aspiring structural engineers are not able to draw correct bending moment
diagrams and are poor in  understanding  structural behaviour. They can be
good at producing huge computer output and acting as computer operator. This
is very serious.

Most of the times, schedules are only provided for all structural components
like footings, columns, beams and slabs without any detail drawing. In
gaothan area, houses are touching each other with common walls on two sides.
There is no concept of open space or setback. This necessitates construction
on the entire plot with columns on the boundary. Even today,  many engineers
are providing half and quarter footing ( eccentric footing)  for periphery
and corner columns or provide floating columns from plinth beams. It is
necessary to educate these engineers on probable solutions.

Other major reason for poor quality service is the meagre amount of fees
paid to structural engineers.  Clients or architects  pressurise  and
negotiating hard with structural engineer for reducing the steel and his
fees. It is the  fact that an estate  broker ( agent)  is earing much higher
fees by selling one flat in the building compared to fees received by a
structural engineer for the design of entire building. Structural engineers
are also undercutting the fees to grab the job. The range of fees charged
ranges from Rs. 2 per sq. ft. to Rs. 10 per sq.ft. depending on the location
, project size, etc. Even structural engineer rarely gets the promised full
payment.  We can not expect wonders by paying pea nuts. Many a times client
hints that he can manage the stability certificate from the market.

We need to have minimum design standards, preparation of design basis
report, basic design calculations and detail drawings are expected from a
good structural engineer.

Relations with architects :

Most of the times client is not willing to appoint separate agencies. To
have one point responsibility, client appoints architect as the project
leader for all the design services including liaison, architectural,
structural, PMC, HVAC.  Architect is intern appointing other agencies.
Naturally architect start dictating terms to structural engineers  which may
include  restriction on structural framing arrangement, forcing to reduce
sizes of beams and columns,  orientation of columns, omitting  some columns
as per their wish. This may lead to poor structural arrangement. On one
hand, client is pressing for minimum steel consumption. Structural
engineer’s efficiency is measured by steel consumption ir-respective of
whether he follows any code guidelines.
Definition of good structural engineer from perspective of  property
developer is  " Lighter the design (steel)  better is the engineer". From
architect’s perspective, a good structural engineer is  a person who listens
to architects without arguing on structural framing, deletes the columns as
directed, ready to carry out  any number of revisions without grumbling,
does not send reminders for his meagre fees, signs the stability certificate
with life time responsibility of structure without any control over material
and workmanship "

There are always exceptions to these rules and there are some good
knowledgeable clients and wonderful architects but their number is very
small. One should be really lucky to get an opportunity to work with such
people.

Architects are charging fees on the total cost which ranges from 3 to 6%.
When it comes to paying the structural engineer, it is either about 1% of
RCC cost of on sq. ft basis or lump-sum. This fees is very less compared to
what they are charging the client. E.g. if an Architect is getting 4% on
total cost, he is getting 4% on RCC cost as well but only paying 1% of RCC
cost to Structural engineer.
Therefore many a times structural engineers are not happy to work with
architects but for the fear of losing the project,  they fall in line, ready
to compromise the structural system to please the architects, accept less
payment, even delayed payments. This generally happens in building segment.
Eminent structural engineer Late N.N. Bhagwati of Bhagwati & Associates had
decided not to work under architects. He founded a firm of structural
consultancy and employed architects to work for him.
Structural engineers working for infrastructure projects like bridges,
roads, dams, tunnels, ports, industrial structures etc. generally have
better freedom for implementing innovative solutions without much
interference from architects.

We require a mechanism by which Structural engineers are to be directly
appointed by client and paid reasonable fees.

Roles and responsibility of structural engineer :

Time has come to define role and responsibility of structural engineers. We
are endlessly waiting for Engineers bill. Alpa has done good amount of work
for preparing exhaustive document on this subject. We need to push it at
least at respective state level. There can be a state level registration of
structural engineers with grades. They should be able to work in the entire
state without any hassle and no need to have  separate registration with
various municipal corporations.

Presently structural engineers are signing all formats of stability
certificates and taking the life time responsibility of structure without
any control over the construction process. Structural engineers are  only
responsible for the correctness of their design and compliance to code
provisions. There is no standard certification format . All the Govt.
agencies wants someone to be responsible. Who is the best scape goat  for
this job than the  structural engineer? Certification drafts by various
agencies like local Municipal corporations, CIDCO, Town planning, Collector
office, Industrial Development corporation etc   are one sided and putting
whole responsibility on the shoulders on structural engineers for design,
foundation safety, quality of material, material testing, workmanship,
supervision etc. Responsibility should be fixed based on the scope of work
of each agency. Design responsibility to Structural engineer, Supervision
responsibility to PMC, construction safety responsibility to contractor,
stability of founding strata, settlement,  stability of deep excavations for
basement to geotechnical consultant and overall responsibility should be
with the owner who is controlling the finance.

ISSE is working on clearly defining the role and responsibility of each
agency in the construction project. Sample stability certificate is also
available on ISSE website. We need to collectively push for implementation
of these guidelines.

I hope SEFI members will express their views on these topics. Some good
suggestions are expected for overall improvement in the system.

Warm Regards.
Hemant Vadalkar
Consulting Structural Engineer , Mumbai.








Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ajay2612
SEFI Regulars
SEFI Regulars


Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:25 pm    Post subject: [Quality of Services] of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship Reply with quote

V nice.heads of to you sir.ajay

From: "va"forum@sefindia.org
Sent:Mon, 08 Feb 2016 19:03:23 +0530
To: econf@sefindia.org
Subject: {E-CONF2016} [Quality of Services] of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship
           Welcome to the most exciting e-conference on "State of Structural Engineering practice in India" with a sub topic "Quality of Services of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship"
Quote:

I welcome all SEFI colleagues to this important e-conference for expressing their views freely on this forum. We need to understand the country wide situation in the profession of structural engineering, problems faced by us and the probable solutions.

Deteriorating services of structural Engineers and minimum standards :

Structural engineers are supposed to be the bright students of civil engineering. First choice of students for specialization in post-graduation is Structural engineering. Society is looking at us for good and economical solutions. But why the services offered by structural engineers are very poor and deteriorating ? If one looks beyond the urban areas, there are no guidelines for practicing as structural consultant. Any civil engineer or even diploma holders are acting as structural engineers in semi-urban areas. With their very limited knowledge and experience, they are providing the designs which are of very poor quality. With some exceptions, this happens in urban areas as well. In urban area, local municipal bodies are insisting on registration of structural engineers with some annual fees. Sometimes, grading is provided to designers permitting maximum number of storeys based on qualification and experience. Many aspiring structural engineers are not able to draw correct bending moment diagrams and are poor in understanding structural behaviour. They can be good at producing huge computer output and acting as computer operator. This is very serious.

Most of the times, schedules are only provided for all structural components like footings, columns, beams and slabs without any detail drawing. In gaothan area, houses are touching each other with common walls on two sides. There is no concept of open space or setback. This necessitates construction on the entire plot with columns on the boundary. Even today, many engineers are providing half and quarter footing ( eccentric footing) for periphery and corner columns or provide floating columns from plinth beams. It is necessary to educate these engineers on probable solutions.

Other major reason for poor quality service is the meagre amount of fees paid to structural engineers. Clients or architects pressurise and negotiating hard with structural engineer for reducing the steel and his fees. It is the fact that an estate broker ( agent) is earing much higher fees by selling one flat in the building compared to fees received by a structural engineer for the design of entire building. Structural engineers are also undercutting the fees to grab the job. The range of fees charged ranges from Rs. 2 per sq. ft. to Rs. 10 per sq.ft. depending on the location , project size, etc. Even structural engineer rarely gets the promised full payment. We can not expect wonders by paying pea nuts. Many a times client hints that he can manage the stability certificate from the market.

We need to have minimum design standards, preparation of design basis report, basic design calculations and detail drawings are expected from a good structural engineer.

Relations with architects :

Most of the times client is not willing to appoint separate agencies. To have one point responsibility, client appoints architect as the project leader for all the design services including liaison, architectural, structural, PMC, HVAC. Architect is intern appointing other agencies. Naturally architect start dictating terms to structural engineers which may include restriction on structural framing arrangement, forcing to reduce sizes of beams and columns, orientation of columns, omitting some columns as per their wish. This may lead to poor structural arrangement. On one hand, client is pressing for minimum steel consumption. Structural engineer’s efficiency is measured by steel consumption ir-respective of whether he follows any code guidelines.
Definition of good structural engineer from perspective of property developer is " Lighter the design (steel) better is the engineer". From architect’s perspective, a good structural engineer is a person who listens to architects without arguing on structural framing, deletes the columns as directed, ready to carry out any number of revisions without grumbling, does not send reminders for his meagre fees, signs the stability certificate with life time responsibility of structure without any control over material and workmanship "

There are always exceptions to these rules and there are some good knowledgeable clients and wonderful architects but their number is very small. One should be really lucky to get an opportunity to work with such people.

Architects are charging fees on the total cost which ranges from 3 to 6%. When it comes to paying the structural engineer, it is either about 1% of RCC cost of on sq. ft basis or lump-sum. This fees is very less compared to what they are charging the client. E.g. if an Architect is getting 4% on total cost, he is getting 4% on RCC cost as well but only paying 1% of RCC cost to Structural engineer.
Therefore many a times structural engineers are not happy to work with architects but for the fear of losing the project, they fall in line, ready to compromise the structural system to please the architects, accept less payment, even delayed payments. This generally happens in building segment. Eminent structural engineer Late N.N. Bhagwati of Bhagwati & Associates had decided not to work under architects. He founded a firm of structural consultancy and employed architects to work for him.
Structural engineers working for infrastructure projects like bridges, roads, dams, tunnels, ports, industrial structures etc. generally have better freedom for implementing innovative solutions without much interference from architects.

We require a mechanism by which Structural engineers are to be directly appointed by client and paid reasonable fees.

Roles and responsibility of structural engineer :

Time has come to define role and responsibility of structural engineers. We are endlessly waiting for Engineers bill. Alpa has done good amount of work for preparing exhaustive document on this subject. We need to push it at least at respective state level. There can be a state level registration of structural engineers with grades. They should be able to work in the entire state without any hassle and no need to have separate registration with various municipal corporations.

Presently structural engineers are signing all formats of stability certificates and taking the life time responsibility of structure without any control over the construction process. Structural engineers are only responsible for the correctness of their design and compliance to code provisions. There is no standard certification format . All the Govt. agencies wants someone to be responsible. Who is the best scape goat for this job than the structural engineer? Certification drafts by various agencies like local Municipal corporations, CIDCO, Town planning, Collector office, Industrial Development corporation etc are one sided and putting whole responsibility on the shoulders on structural engineers for design, foundation safety, quality of material, material testing, workmanship, supervision etc. Responsibility should be fixed based on the scope of work of each agency. Design responsibility to Structural engineer, Supervision responsibility to PMC, construction safety responsibility to contractor, stability of founding strata, settlement, stability of deep excavations for basement to geotechnical consultant and overall responsibility should be with the owner who is controlling the finance.

ISSE is working on clearly defining the role and responsibility of each agency in the construction project. Sample stability certificate is also available on ISSE website. We need to collectively push for implementation of these guidelines.

I hope SEFI members will express their views on these topics. Some good suggestions are expected for overall improvement in the system.

Warm Regards.
Hemant Vadalkar
Consulting Structural Engineer , Mumbai.
     



     
Get your own FREE website, FREE domain & FREE mobile app with Company email.
Know More >  -->

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nimish.khanolkar
...
...


Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What can be offered, is a function of returns. By returns we mean the fees that we get.

Since there is no official licence and regulation, the fees charged have a very wide range, often confusing the client, who goes for the lowest bid.

Sometimes clients themselves say that they would not mind paying more, if deliveries happened on time! (yes, this is a first hand account)

Probably, meaningful discussions about fees can be one of the best discussions that can happen in a country wide e-conference. We cannot enforce a fee structure like taxis or coolies, but what if SEFI could keep a sticky thread updated every year,  for recommended fees for major cities (Tier 1, 2 and 3) formed after a detailed meetings between key representatives of those cities held annually?

The fees would have a range as per deliverables offered ( elevations versus schedules etc..)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
N. Prabhakar
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sefians,

The quality of services in structural consultancy will improve to a certain extent if there is quality audit by way of a third-party check (proof-checking as commonly known) by another  experienced structural consultant on structural design and drawings.  The proof-checking is commonly done for structural consultancy of bridges, power plant structures, nuclear structures, fertiliser plants, port facility structures, etc. of similar type where the design and drawings are usually prepared by structural consultants appointed by the main contractor of the project, and proof-checked by structural consultants appointed by the owner of the project.  By this system, the quality of service offered is also high, and there have been very few structural failures.

The same cannot be said about the building industry in the private sector which is controlled by property developers and building contractors.  Any one can become a civil contractor, even without having a civil engineering qualification.  What matters to them is not the quality of design and construction, but only marketing and making profit.  Architects are employed for getting municipal approvals, and structural consultant for getting stability and no-objection certificates.  There is no proof-checking of structural design and drawings of any sort by municipal authorities who shelve all their responsibilities to the common man by way of getting self-certification from the Structural consultant.  With this system, the quality of service offered is very poor apart from being paid less, and in combination with bad construction also, there have been many building collapses.

It is high time that the system of proof-checking is adopted by appropriate legislation by the Central Government for all types of construction projects to improve on the quality of service offered by structural consultants.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401 208
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VPandya
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:00 pm    Post subject: [Quality of Services] of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship Reply with quote

Dear Mr. Hemant Vadalkar,
A good number of the issues we are going to discuss in this E-Conference are covered in this ASCE Document.
I have used this document while working in USA and finds it very useful for Construction Industry problems in India.  
ASCE Manual: Manuals of Practice (MOP) MOP 73 :
Quality in the Constructed Project, Third Edition A Guide for Owners, Designers, and Constructors.

Web-Link:

http://www.asce.org/templates/publications-book-detail.aspx?id=7089

Note on Structural Engineer, not so good relationship with Architects in India: One very Sr. Architect at S.O.M. ( Skidmore Owings & Merrill) in Chicago answer this question this way ( I worked for S.O.M. for many years) :
NO SERIOUS ARCHITECT CAN AFFORD TO UNDERMINE CONTRIBUTION OF HIS SR. STRUCTURAL ENGINEER TEAM. He ( Architect) wants his good looking building to stand in Chicago's Wind Loads (Chicago is called a Windy City). He need his Structural Engineer to make that happen, make his dream building a reality . To him this whole thing of Structural Engineer conflicted relationship with Architect is a non issue. S.O.M is one of the world's leading Architectural/Engineering firm. Chicago Sky Line has  many, more than 50 stories buildings done by S.O.M. I have no idea why such a simple truth is not understood in India?

Regards.

Vasudeo Pandya P.E.
Structural Engineer  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: {E-CONF2016} [Quality of Services] of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship
From: forum@sefindia.org
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 13:29:36 +0000
To: econf@sefindia.org

           Welcome to the most exciting e-conference on "State of Structural Engineering practice in India" with a sub topic "Quality of Services of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship"

I welcome all SEFI colleagues to this important e-conference for expressing their views freely on this forum. We need to understand the country wide situation in the profession of structural engineering, problems faced by us and the probable solutions.

Deteriorating services of structural Engineers and minimum standards :

Structural engineers are supposed to be the bright students of civil engineering. First choice of students for specialization in post-graduation is Structural engineering. Society is looking at us for good and economical solutions. But why the services offered by structural engineers are very poor and deteriorating ? If one looks beyond the urban areas, there are no guidelines for practicing as structural consultant. Any civil engineer or even diploma holders are acting as structural engineers in semi-urban areas. With their very limited knowledge and experience, they are providing the designs which are of very poor quality. With some exceptions, this happens in urban areas as well. In urban area, local municipal bodies are insisting on registration of structural engineers with some annual fees. Sometimes, grading is provided to designers permitting maximum number of storeys based on qualification and experience. Many aspiring structural engineers are not able to draw correct bending moment diagrams and are poor in understanding structural behaviour. They can be good at producing huge computer output and acting as computer operator. This is very serious.

Most of the times, schedules are only provided for all structural components like footings, columns, beams and slabs without any detail drawing. In gaothan area, houses are touching each other with common walls on two sides. There is no concept of open space or setback. This necessitates construction on the entire plot with columns on the boundary. Even today, many engineers are providing half and quarter footing ( eccentric footing) for periphery and corner columns or provide floating columns from plinth beams. It is necessary to educate these engineers on probable solutions.

Other major reason for poor quality service is the meagre amount of fees paid to structural engineers. Clients or architects pressurise and negotiating hard with structural engineer for reducing the steel and his fees. It is the fact that an estate broker ( agent) is earing much higher fees by selling one flat in the building compared to fees received by a structural engineer for the design of entire building. Structural engineers are also undercutting the fees to grab the job. The range of fees charged ranges from Rs. 2 per sq. ft. to Rs. 10 per sq.ft. depending on the location , project size, etc. Even structural engineer rarely gets the promised full payment. We can not expect wonders by paying pea nuts. Many a times client hints that he can manage the stability certificate from the market.

We need to have minimum design standards, preparation of design basis report, basic design calculations and detail drawings are expected from a good structural engineer.

Relations with architects :

Most of the times client is not willing to appoint separate agencies. To have one point responsibility, client appoints architect as the project leader for all the design services including liaison, architectural, structural, PMC, HVAC. Architect is intern appointing other agencies. Naturally architect start dictating terms to structural engineers which may include restriction on structural framing arrangement, forcing to reduce sizes of beams and columns, orientation of columns, omitting some columns as per their wish. This may lead to poor structural arrangement. On one hand, client is pressing for minimum steel consumption. Structural engineer’s efficiency is measured by steel consumption ir-respective of whether he follows any code guidelines.
Definition of good structural engineer from perspective of property developer is " Lighter the design (steel) better is the engineer". From architect’s perspective, a good structural engineer is a person who listens to architects without arguing on structural framing, deletes the columns as directed, ready to carry out any number of revisions without grumbling, does not send reminders for his meagre fees, signs the stability certificate with life time responsibility of structure without any control over material and workmanship "

There are always exceptions to these rules and there are some good knowledgeable clients and wonderful architects but their number is very small. One should be really lucky to get an opportunity to work with such people.

Architects are charging fees on the total cost which ranges from 3 to 6%. When it comes to paying the structural engineer, it is either about 1% of RCC cost of on sq. ft basis or lump-sum. This fees is very less compared to what they are charging the client. E.g. if an Architect is getting 4% on total cost, he is getting 4% on RCC cost as well but only paying 1% of RCC cost to Structural engineer.
Therefore many a times structural engineers are not happy to work with architects but for the fear of losing the project, they fall in line, ready to compromise the structural system to please the architects, accept less payment, even delayed payments. This generally happens in building segment. Eminent structural engineer Late N.N. Bhagwati of Bhagwati & Associates had decided not to work under architects. He founded a firm of structural consultancy and employed architects to work for him.
Structural engineers working for infrastructure projects like bridges, roads, dams, tunnels, ports, industrial structures etc. generally have better freedom for implementing innovative solutions without much interference from architects.

We require a mechanism by which Structural engineers are to be directly appointed by client and paid reasonable fees.

Roles and responsibility of structural engineer :

Time has come to define role and responsibility of structural engineers. We are endlessly waiting for Engineers bill. Alpa has done good amount of work for preparing exhaustive document on this subject. We need to push it at least at respective state level. There can be a state level registration of structural engineers with grades. They should be able to work in the entire state without any hassle and no need to have separate registration with various municipal corporations.

Presently structural engineers are signing all formats of stability certificates and taking the life time responsibility of structure without any control over the construction process. Structural engineers are only responsible for the correctness of their design and compliance to code provisions. There is no standard certification format . All the Govt. agencies wants someone to be responsible. Who is the best scape goat for this job than the structural engineer? Certification drafts by various agencies like local Municipal corporations, CIDCO, Town planning, Collector office, Industrial Development corporation etc are one sided and putting whole responsibility on the shoulders on structural engineers for design, foundation safety, quality of material, material testing, workmanship, supervision etc. Responsibility should be fixed based on the scope of work of each agency. Design responsibility to Structural engineer, Supervision responsibility to PMC, construction safety responsibility to contractor, stability of founding strata, settlement, stability of deep excavations for basement to geotechnical consultant and overall responsibility should be with the owner who is controlling the finance.

ISSE is working on clearly defining the role and responsibility of each agency in the construction project. Sample stability certificate is also available on ISSE website. We need to collectively push for implementation of these guidelines.

I hope SEFI members will express their views on these topics. Some good suggestions are expected for overall improvement in the system.

Warm Regards.
Hemant Vadalkar
Consulting Structural Engineer , Mumbai.

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
N. Prabhakar
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sefians,

The quality of consultancy services can be rightly attributed to the quality of detail drawings prepared by the consulting firm.  As we all know, drawing is the language of engineers and it is the end product of any consulting firm. It conveys much more information to the site staff than what one can say the same by words.

For reinforced concrete work, the detail drawings should show reinforcement details in plan, elevation and sections as needed for all variable structural elements. The drawings should also include bar bending schedule related to every reinforcement bar shown on the drawing bearing a bar mark no.  To prepare the bar bending schedule, the drawing office may get the information from site about the availability of different diameter of bars and their lengths available at site. The suggested detailing is very much necessary when it has to meet the stringent ductility requirements for earthquake resistant structures as per IS 13920, with close spacing of stirrups and links, and lapping locations, etc.  These matters cannot be dealt with by site staff.  The current practice of showing reinforcement details in a schedule form on the drawing, which are being done by many consultants, should stop by all means for the sake of quality service.  

Similarly, for structural steel work, the detail drawings should include cutting material list of all steel members, including joint details by welding/bolts and nuts, for ease of fabrication.  

By preparing detail drawings as mentioned,  visits of structural consultants to site can be minimised, and the quality of work at site will also improve.    

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401 208
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SATYAPAUL
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:59 am    Post subject: [Quality of Services] of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship Reply with quote

dear frinds, This is my suggestion that float business by joining hand with architects and other engineers e.g. Highwyas,Airports,bridges and environmental engineers.invite other international consultants and provide services to them.New townships are coming,where architects and town planners play therir roles.do not move alone in business.Time has changed.find alternative side business in interiors.Time has changed.Unless govt. spending is increased and economy is at the brim,otherwise better chances of business are lean for structural engineers.contractors are not submitting shop drawings for approval from structural engineers.like chartered Accountants,there must be single body to regulate the strucyural engineering profession.Many structural failures take during construction,but the govt. does not care.Life of human beings is cheap.only hope is that media shall highlight and bring this in to the notice of parliamentarians.Late Mr. piloo mody was an architect and he was instruemental in bringing Atchitects bill in parliament and get it passed.we should also bring this bill in the parliament. REGARDS SATYA PAUL  On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 19:33:29 +0530 "N. Prabhakar"  wrote >                   Dear Sefians, >  > The quality of consultancy services can be rightly attributed to the quality of detail drawings prepared by the consulting firm. As we all know, drawing is the language of engineers and it is the end product of any consulting firm. It conveys much more information to the site staff than what one can say the same by words. >  > For reinforced concrete work, the detail drawings should show reinforcement details in plan, elevation and sections as needed for all variable structural elements. The drawings should also include bar bending schedule related to every reinforcement bar shown on the drawing bearing a bar mark no. To prepare the bar bending schedule, the drawing office may get the information from site about the availability of different diameter of bars and their lengths available at site. The suggested detailing is very much necessary when it has to meet the stringent ductility requirements for earthquake resistant structures as per IS 13920, with close spacing of stirrups and links, and lapping locations, etc. These matters cannot be dealt with by site staff. The current practice of showing reinforcement details in a schedule form on the drawing, which are being done by many consultants, should stop by all means for the sake of quality service.  >  > Similarly, for structural steel work, the detail drawings should include cutting material list of all steel members, including joint details by welding/bolts and nuts, for ease of fabrication.  >  > By preparing detail drawings as mentioned, visits of structural consultants to site can be minimised, and the quality of work at site will also improve.  >  > With best wishes, >  > N. Prabhakar > Chartered Structural Engineer > Vasai (E), Pin 401 208       > >  >  > --

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
va
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:15 am    Post subject: [Quality of Services] of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship Reply with quote

Dear All,
I would like to summarise discussions during last week on the topic of “State of Structural Engineering practice in India” with a sub topic “Quality of Services of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship

Our friend Sunil Sodhai expressed that in the age of marketing, structural engineers have no direct contact with the clients and they have to work through architects without any regulatory mechanism or government support. So we have to work hard.
Senior Structural Engineer N. Prabhakar feels that quality of structural engineering services can be improved if there is third party quality audit or proof checking. This is lacking in the building industry which is controlled by property developers and building contractors. For other type of structures like bridges, industrial structures, port structures etc proof checking is mandatory.
He suggests that it is high time that the system of proof-checking is adopted by appropriate legislation by the Central Government for all types of construction projects to improve on the quality of service offered by structural consultants.
Practice of providing schedules of RCC components must stop. Structural engineers must produce detailed structural drawings which is the language of engineers to communicate the date to site. Ductility provisions, closely spaced links, splice locations, beam-column junction details must be provided by structural engineers and should not be left to site staff. Derailed drawings for improving the quality.

Senior Structural Engineer Vasudeo Pandya who worked for S.O.M. feels that ASCE manual covers most of the points of discussion. ASCE Manual: Manuals of Practice (MOP) MOP 73 :
Quality in the Constructed Project, Third Edition A Guide for Owners, Designers, and Constructors.
Web-Link:
http://www.asce.org/templates/publications-book-detail.aspx?id=7089


On the relation with architects he shares that One very Sr. Architect at S.O.M. ( Skidmore Owings & Merrill) says that “ NO SERIOUS ARCHITECT CAN AFFORD TO UNDERMINE CONTRIBUTION OF HIS SR. STRUCTURAL ENGINEER TEAM . He ( Architect) wants his good looking building to stand in Chicago's Wind Loads.” This truth must be understood by Indian Architectural firms also.
SATYA PAUL feels that there must be single body to regulate the structural engineering profession and we must work together to pass the bill for engineers in parliament. We should join hands with architects and other international engineers to provide services.

I feel the time has come that we all structural engineers must come together. There has to be a single central body which should get recognition from the Government. This body can then register the structural engineers based on their level of experience and knowledge under various categories. The body can define role and responsibilities of structural engineers, minimum standards to be maintained in providing the services, prepare a manual of practice to guide structural engineers, publish draft certification formats to be provided by structural engineers. ISSE ( Indian Society of Structural Engineers) has done some work in this direction by publishing a manual of practice for Structural design consultants in 2003. This is under revision now. ISSE has defined some minimum fees related to minimum standards. For more information one may visit www.isse.org.in
I hope there will be more discussion on this topic and good suggestions will emerge through the brain storming sessions.
Warm regards.
Hemant Vadalkar
Consulting Structural Engineer
Mumbai.


From: va [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 7:00 PM
To: econf@sefindia.org
Subject: {E-CONF2016} [Quality of Services] of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship



Welcome to the most exciting e-conference on "State of Structural Engineering practice in India" with a sub topic "Quality of Services of Structural Engineers and the conflicted Architect -Structural Engineer relationship"

I welcome all SEFI colleagues to this important e-conference for expressing their views freely on this forum. We need to understand the country wide situation in the profession of structural engineering, problems faced by us and the probable solutions.

Deteriorating services of structural Engineers and minimum standards :

Structural engineers are supposed to be the bright students of civil engineering. First choice of students for specialization in post-graduation is Structural engineering. Society is looking at us for good and economical solutions. But why the services offered by structural engineers are very poor and deteriorating ? If one looks beyond the urban areas, there are no guidelines for practicing as structural consultant. Any civil engineer or even diploma holders are acting as structural engineers in semi-urban areas. With their very limited knowledge and experience, they are providing the designs which are of very poor quality. With some exceptions, this happens in urban areas as well. In urban area, local municipal bodies are insisting on registration of structural engineers with some annual fees. Sometimes, grading is provided to designers permitting maximum number of storeys based on qualification and experience. Many aspiring structural engineers are not able to draw correct bending moment diagrams and are poor in understanding structural behaviour. They can be good at producing huge computer output and acting as computer operator. This is very serious.

Most of the times, schedules are only provided for all structural components like footings, columns, beams and slabs without any detail drawing. In gaothan area, houses are touching each other with common walls on two sides. There is no concept of open space or setback. This necessitates construction on the entire plot with columns on the boundary. Even today, many engineers are providing half and quarter footing ( eccentric footing) for periphery and corner columns or provide floating columns from plinth beams. It is necessary to educate these engineers on probable solutions.

Other major reason for poor quality service is the meagre amount of fees paid to structural engineers. Clients or architects pressurise and negotiating hard with structural engineer for reducing the steel and his fees. It is the fact that an estate broker ( agent) is earing much higher fees by selling one flat in the building compared to fees received by a structural engineer for the design of entire building. Structural engineers are also undercutting the fees to grab the job. The range of fees charged ranges from Rs. 2 per sq. ft. to Rs. 10 per sq.ft. depending on the location , project size, etc. Even structural engineer rarely gets the promised full payment. We can not expect wonders by paying pea nuts. Many a times client hints that he can manage the stability certificate from the market.

We need to have minimum design standards, preparation of design basis report, basic design calculations and detail drawings are expected from a good structural engineer.

Relations with architects :

Most of the times client is not willing to appoint separate agencies. To have one point responsibility, client appoints architect as the project leader for all the design services including liaison, architectural, structural, PMC, HVAC. Architect is intern appointing other agencies. Naturally architect start dictating terms to structural engineers which may include restriction on structural framing arrangement, forcing to reduce sizes of beams and columns, orientation of columns, omitting some columns as per their wish. This may lead to poor structural arrangement. On one hand, client is pressing for minimum steel consumption. Structural engineer’s efficiency is measured by steel consumption ir-respective of whether he follows any code guidelines.
Definition of good structural engineer from perspective of property developer is " Lighter the design (steel) better is the engineer". From architect’s perspective, a good structural engineer is a person who listens to architects without arguing on structural framing, deletes the columns as directed, ready to carry out any number of revisions without grumbling, does not send reminders for his meagre fees, signs the stability certificate with life time responsibility of structure without any control over material and workmanship "

There are always exceptions to these rules and there are some good knowledgeable clients and wonderful architects but their number is very small. One should be really lucky to get an opportunity to work with such people.

Architects are charging fees on the total cost which ranges from 3 to 6%. When it comes to paying the structural engineer, it is either about 1% of RCC cost of on sq. ft basis or lump-sum. This fees is very less compared to what they are charging the client. E.g. if an Architect is getting 4% on total cost, he is getting 4% on RCC cost as well but only paying 1% of RCC cost to Structural engineer.
Therefore many a times structural engineers are not happy to work with architects but for the fear of losing the project, they fall in line, ready to compromise the structural system to please the architects, accept less payment, even delayed payments. This generally happens in building segment. Eminent structural engineer Late N.N. Bhagwati of Bhagwati & Associates had decided not to work under architects. He founded a firm of structural consultancy and employed architects to work for him.
Structural engineers working for infrastructure projects like bridges, roads, dams, tunnels, ports, industrial structures etc. generally have better freedom for implementing innovative solutions without much interference from architects.

We require a mechanism by which Structural engineers are to be directly appointed by client and paid reasonable fees.

Roles and responsibility of structural engineer :

Time has come to define role and responsibility of structural engineers. We are endlessly waiting for Engineers bill. Alpa has done good amount of work for preparing exhaustive document on this subject. We need to push it at least at respective state level. There can be a state level registration of structural engineers with grades. They should be able to work in the entire state without any hassle and no need to have separate registration with various municipal corporations.

Presently structural engineers are signing all formats of stability certificates and taking the life time responsibility of structure without any control over the construction process. Structural engineers are only responsible for the correctness of their design and compliance to code provisions. There is no standard certification format . All the Govt. agencies wants someone to be responsible. Who is the best scape goat for this job than the structural engineer? Certification drafts by various agencies like local Municipal corporations, CIDCO, Town planning, Collector office, Industrial Development corporation etc are one sided and putting whole responsibility on the shoulders on structural engineers for design, foundation safety, quality of material, material testing, workmanship, supervision etc. Responsibility should be fixed based on the scope of work of each agency. Design responsibility to Structural engineer, Supervision responsibility to PMC, construction safety responsibility to contractor, stability of founding strata, settlement, stability of deep excavations for basement to geotechnical consultant and overall responsibility should be with the owner who is controlling the finance.

ISSE is working on clearly defining the role and responsibility of each agency in the construction project. Sample stability certificate is also available on ISSE website. We need to collectively push for implementation of these guidelines.

I hope SEFI members will express their views on these topics. Some good suggestions are expected for overall improvement in the system.

Warm Regards.
Hemant Vadalkar
Consulting Structural Engineer , Mumbai.

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rejizac
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:00 am    Post subject: No Title Reply with quote

Dear all,
 
It is sad to note that the quality of civil engineering practised in the country is reducing day by day in all areas of construction.  We are ourselves to be blamed and we ourselves can make it right.  After touching and integrating many of these aspects in my career, let me put down some points..
 
First of all, the seniors among us are to be blamed seriously for not considering anything to change the trend in the last 40 years. Before that engineers managed the construction fully.  The next generation off loaded the responsibility of construction to many other hands like, Architects, Builders etc. 
 
As we only are responsible for life, we need to take control.  Now you would say there is no law in the land to put it that way.  Actually we are law makers ourselves, as we control the construction through many instruction in the general notes we give along with the drawings. Now Sefi may introduce a common general notes or our constitution which is to be followed in all sites through these drawings.  For example, Constitution/law do not give parking spaces  for auto rikshas or taxi. They fix it themselves and no body is going to complain about that when there is strong common sense behind these. We should act in the same way. Let us make our own laws and implement it too. Nobody else is going to understand or support you.
 
Another important point is that you don't let others to do the work you are supposed to do. What they do is, they get the works done by different engineers and they just assemble it together with out knowing the subjects like in a post office. We design engineers, planning engineers, estimation engineers, quality control engineers, site engineers all work for them. He gets paid but you are not. Public never understands what the engineers do as they only see the other faces. You need to deal with public and get the works directly. You can do this much faster and efficiently.  If at all client wants cosmetic or functionality you get an architect to work for you on that project. After practising most topics in civil engineering including structral design, detailing, software development, erp software, estimation, geotechnical, planning, construction management and architecture I think the last one requires the least effort. Public should also understand that in construction engineer is your friend who reduces your cost where as all others adds to that.
 
Architecture requires a good right side of the brain where as Engineering requires left side. Good Architects thus are not good engineers and vice versa. If the country wants safer structures, let engineers do their duty and only engineers should supervise another engineer's works. Peer review/Inspectorate is a must. Nobody else understand these works. Thus all infra structure and building construction should be based on this.
 
Another issue is in the education system practised in India. One of my usual interview questions to M.Techs for jobs or internship is archimedes law and definition. I would have interviewed may be around 400 engineers. None of them ever gave me the answer correctly except one or two. It was invented by Archimedes in BC 250. Our students are yet to understand this and they do not apply to this to structures. Leave the students, some of the university professors who got Phd from IITs are yet to understand the same. Some of the top consultants have spent clients crores of rupees not understanding Archimedes.  Problem lies with the teachers. Our education systems is depending on notes given by teachers. This is to be stopped. All exams should be open text book exams from high school itself to know if they have understood the real theory and applied it.
 
An application level teaching is highly essential as many of us do not know why we are learning many subjects. For example mathematics topics for engineers are not taught with application in mind. Maths being a big tool in analysing the situations, we lack in the use of it due to the same.  Students should learn from the text books and not from the notes given by lecturers. Only then they will know the art of learning from information available in internet and other libraries. Sefians should come forward to support an entrance exam where screening is done by multiple choice and then those who qualifies, to open text book exam in the second part. Just by introducing a system like this, it will pass shock waves through levels of education even from primary schools.
 
A primary school student is given a set of equations to by heart   and it reduces the teachers job of explaining it. The same student by hearts all the civil engineering equations rather than understanding or deriving it. The number of equations they do exceed thousands and they do not use or remember it at the time of application. Also none of my engineers ever told me how to do a foundation where footing and retaining wall comes together  as what they know is only footing and retaining wall individually.  When will we ever stop teaching  civil engineering as different members alone like slab, beam, column, pile, footing, retaining wall or the theory behind all these members as a unified one?
 
A great deal of interaction is possible with the engineering subjects mentioned above for easy construction with the power of IT. As engineers offices do all the jobs in the same enviornment, speed and accuracy of the system will improve. Look at Uber taxi, they have reduced the cost of travelling to 50% or lesser with overall integration. In construction, you can save 100% cost in construction with the same. We are masters in waste creation not reduction. A quick example is, we do a villa in 2 years which is actually possible in 5 months by integrating services. Here we are loosing 20% interest cost alone in a Rs 5000 per sqft villa. If the cost of civil construction is Rs 1000 per sqft, we loose it in time alone. There are atleast another 15 parameters where we loose additionally.
 
Look at our engineers, they do not use programming to do their own software. Leave it, they do not even know the key board. Twenty five years ago I submitted an assignment typed in my engineering college for the first time in their history. Even though there was resistance from teachers I could force them to accept it. It improved my typing skills, and this could be why I am typing this today  to express my views.
 
Research is what Country needs and it is not practised any where. If I am right only IIT Chennai has MS courses promoting research. Thanks to our PM I read about 10 such units will be set up else where in yeterday's news paper.  There should be a grants and support from the Govt in research to reduce the cost  of construction in India. Being the largest area of Govt spending, research can save a part of this amount. Many of the research we presently do is not of use to common practise, and before funding the impact needs to be valued.
 
Minister asked a question to IT sector what they should do to support IT in the year 2001 in a seminar at Kochi and the scientifc advisor to CM , Chandrababu Naidu, was the chair person, said the best thing you can do is to stay away from this. In my opinion Government and govt supported firms should stay away from the real construction as practiced in other countries. What Govt should do is to have Inspectorates all over the country as like electrical inspectorate to check the construction activity. Cream of our society either goes abroad or goes to Government and they do not work for India anymore. All PWD, CPWD, EIL systems to be revamped to only checking level as they are working at 20% their efficiency. Also Engineers connected in any way with Govt has to be seperated from decision making bodies as they were part of a system which worked with very low efficiency.
 
Regards,



Reji Zachariah B.Tech., M.B.A., ​​
M​.
S. IIT Chennai.
   â€‹

Structural Consultant




Mobile +919846026162
S&R Consultants, Structural & Geotechnical Consultants,
2nd floor, S&R Building, Soonoro church 1st cross rd,
Elamkulam, Kochi 20, Kerala, India.
Phone +914843241537  Fax +914842322532
coordinates : 9.965968,76.308463
E mail: r (srconsultants@eth.net)ejizac2004@gmail.com (ejizac2004@gmail.com)
www.sandrconsultants.com 
www.aadspro.com


skype id:  rejizac
google talk id: rejizac2004@gmail.com (rejizac2004@gmail.com)

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topicReply to topic Thank Post    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> Econference on State of Structural Engineering Practice and Education All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


© 2003, 2008 SEFINDIA, Indian Domain Registration
Publishing or acceptance of an advertisement is neither a guarantee nor endorsement of the advertiser's product or service. advertisement policy