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Unethical Structural Practice
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VPandya
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Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 819

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:02 pm    Post subject: PROOF CHECKING IN AMERICA IS REQUIRED BY GOVERNING BUILDING CODE . Reply with quote

Dear Sefi  Engineers ,

PROOF CHECKING  IN AMERICA IS REQUIRED BY  CITY'S  GOVERNING BUILDING CODE . I work on projects of High Rise Buildings and to GET BUIDING  PERMIT FROM CITY you have to have a  letter from a PROOF CHECKER . To start foundation of the  project we need
Building Permit  for the project .  The   fee of  Proof Checker is paid by the client.   In America they call Proof Checking also as  PEER REVIEW .  

Regards.

Vasudeo Pandya P.E.
Structural Engineer

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Note from my previous post :

I have seen in my last 35 years of experience, seen  LOTS  OF  JUNK   COMPUTER OUT PUTS. May not be due to Software Glitch,  but due to poor MODELING of  HIGH RISE BUILDING FRAMES AND FOUNDATIONS .  WE NEED  PROOF CHECKING  OF ALL  HIGH RISE BUILDING DESIGN INCLUDING FINAL COMPUTER RUNS .

Regards.

Vasudeo  Pandya  P.E.
Structural Engineer



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iamtabish
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Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:30 am    Post subject: Unethical Structural Practice Reply with quote

Good Day, 

Being a practising Structural Consultant from last 5 years all i can say that, one should not defame his profession by not following the Codal provisions and the topography condition.
Last but not the least, we cannot blame him for doing any illegal work, as the authorities have provided him the licence to go ahead with his firm and to work as Structural Consultant. It is quite indeed a bitter truth and sad reality of our governing bodies both in engineering as well as in medical field to issue the licences without knowing the outcome.


Thanks and Regards,
Tabish Rasool



On Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 12:38 PM Raza_Ahsan <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

Quote:
           Hello Everyone,
There is a very senior structural Engineer in Mumbai running a structural designing consultancy from more than 25years.
He is not following any codal norms and in his each and every project his violating the codal requirment and many of his projects are not fully safe.
In many of his projects he even design the foundation without stability report and let me tell you such projects have long spans cantilever members.
He even ignore the required reinforcement and give very less reinforcement in columns and other structural members.
Many times he got caught in proof checking and sometimes he manage to come out of it and many times he resigned from the project and run away.
He have unlimited floors license and am shocked how he manage to get that. His employees always inform him about the structure not getting pass by he always forced them to do it in his way or as per his wish.
If anyone still resist than he terminate them or many time harrassed them by continuously torturing in the name of termination.
At the moment he is working with many of the famous architects and he always run on the simple funda of satisfying architectural needs by ignoring the structural stability.
Please let me know what to do in this case and i have proof of all the things which i stated above.
Expecting reply from Senior members of this forum.
Thank you
     



     


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alpa_sheth
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 264

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: Unethical Structural Practice Reply with quote

Hi,

This is an unusual mail and while we talk about this problem in generalities, this issue concerns a specific consultant. Perhaps this should have come in the shout out forum and not General Discussion Forum. I don't now for sure.

I understand the angst that you,  Er Raza Ahsan seem to be experiencing (I'm assuming what you are saying is true), but I can assure you that this Consultant is, unfortunately, not the first nor the last such structural engineer.

There are mainly two types of errors-

Errors of ignorance- Is the consultant doing what he s doing because he does not know good engineering? Is he just dangerously incompetent? In such a case, he needs to either retire or go through a rigorous re-training program.

Errors of Intent- The person knows correct from incorrect engineering but still continues with unsafe, incorrect design and detailing BECAUSE HE MAY PERHAPS HAVE NO MORAL COMPASS AND BECAUSE  THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES FOR HIS BEHAVIOUR.

I agree with other esteemed SEFIans who have opined in the matter. I am summarising  the choices that you have-

a) Report  the consultant to BMC Chief Engineer (Building Proposals). You must write a very neutral, fact-driven letter to him and substantiate your claims  with proof.  You may be aware the CEs cannot simply destroy a letter they receive. They are bound to take cognisance of every letter they receive.  Cc the letter to the Municipal Commissioner and to NDMA, Delhi. You should explain the dangers (all are not structural engineers) and  ask- what are the systems that the government has  in place  to prevent such consultants from practising and being  a threat to society. Be warned, consultants like him have friends everywhere.  If you cc it to many people, then your letter cannot be ignored.
b) If you are working with him, just QUIT. You will find a job elsewhere.
c) As I mentioned above, know that he is not the only such consultant in Mumbai. There are many others. There is a need to "Drain the Swamp". But it cannot be done without a concerted effort and a competency based licensing system. But even with that, know that  YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE VIRTUE. What if the engineer knows how to design right, but still does it wrong?
d) Always differentiate between your 'Circle of Concern' and 'Circle of Influence'. Expend your energy where you can make a difference in a positive way.  
e)Also, lastly, ask yourself that you are not being prejudiced when you are assessing his engineering. Always be neutral and unbiased while judging  someone else.

Good luck!

best regards,
Alpa

Raza_Ahsan wrote:
Hello Everyone,
There is a very senior structural Engineer in Mumbai running a structural designing consultancy from more than 25years.
He is not following any codal norms and in his each and every project his violating the codal requirment and many of his projects are not fully safe.
In many of his projects he even design the foundation without stability report and let me tell you such projects have long spans cantilever members.
He even ignore the required reinforcement and give very less reinforcement in columns and other structural members.
Many times he got caught in proof checking and sometimes he manage to come out of it and many times he resigned from the project and run away.
He have unlimited floors license and am shocked how he manage to get that. His employees always inform him about the structure not getting pass by he always forced them to do it in his way or as per his wish.
If anyone still resist than he terminate them or many time harrassed them by continuously torturing in the name of termination.
At the moment he is working with many of the famous architects and he always run on the simple funda of satisfying architectural needs by ignoring the structural stability.
Please let me know what to do in this case and i have proof of all the things which i stated above.
Expecting reply from Senior members of this forum.
Thank you
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arun.asdf99
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject: Unethical Structural Practice Reply with quote

Place a letter infront of PM Office with details mentioning firm name etc.. they will take care to cut his practice license.

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 1:43 pm alpa_sheth, <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

Quote:
           Hi,

This is an unusual mail and while we talk about this problem in generalities, this issue concerns a specific consultant. Perhaps this should have come in the shout out forum and not General Discussion Forum. I don't now for sure.

I understand the angst that you, Er Raza Ahsan seem to be experiencing (I'm assuming what you are saying is true), but I can assure you that this Consultant is, unfortunately, not the first nor the last such structural engineer.

There are mainly two types of errors-

Errors of ignorance- Is the consultant doing what he s doing because he does not know good engineering? Is he just dangerously incompetent? In such a case, he needs to either retire or go through a rigorous re-training program.

Errors of Intent- The person knows correct from incorrect engineering but still continues with unsafe, incorrect design and detailing BECAUSE HE MAY PERHAPS HAVE NO MORAL COMPASS AND BECAUSE THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES FOR HIS BEHAVIOUR.

I agree with other esteemed SEFIans who have opined in the matter. I am summarising the choices that you have-

a) Report the consultant to BMC Chief Engineer (Building Proposals). You must write a very neutral, fact-driven letter to him and substantiate your claims with proof. You may be aware the CEs cannot simply destroy a letter they receive. They are bound to take cognisance of every letter they receive. Cc the letter to the Municipal Commissioner and to NDMA, Delhi. You should explain the dangers (all are not structural engineers) and ask- what are the systems that the government has in place to prevent such consultants from practising and being a threat to society. Be warned, consultants like him have friends everywhere. If you cc it to many people, then your letter cannot be ignored.
b) If you are working with him, just QUIT. You will find a job elsewhere.
c) As I mentioned above, know that he is not the only such consultant in Mumbai. There are many others. There is a need to "Drain the Swamp". But it cannot be done without a concerted effort and a competency based licensing system. But even with that, know that YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE VIRTUE. What if the engineer knows how to design right, but still does it wrong?
d) Always differentiate between your 'Circle of Concern' and 'Circle of Influence'. Expend your energy where you can make a difference in a positive way.
e)Also, lastly, ask yourself that you are not being prejudiced when you are assessing his engineering. Always be neutral and unbiased while judging someone else.

Good luck!

best regards,
Alpa

      Raza_Ahsan wrote:                Hello Everyone,
There is a very senior structural Engineer in Mumbai running a structural designing consultancy from more than 25years.
He is not following any codal norms and in his each and every project his violating the codal requirment and many of his projects are not fully safe.
In many of his projects he even design the foundation without stability report and let me tell you such projects have long spans cantilever members.
He even ignore the required reinforcement and give very less reinforcement in columns and other structural members.
Many times he got caught in proof checking and sometimes he manage to come out of it and many times he resigned from the project and run away.
He have unlimited floors license and am shocked how he manage to get that. His employees always inform him about the structure not getting pass by he always forced them to do it in his way or as per his wish.
If anyone still resist than he terminate them or many time harrassed them by continuously torturing in the name of termination.
At the moment he is working with many of the famous architects and he always run on the simple funda of satisfying architectural needs by ignoring the structural stability.
Please let me know what to do in this case and i have proof of all the things which i stated above.
Expecting reply from Senior members of this forum.
Thank you     
     



     


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mohd_arastu
SEFI Regulars
SEFI Regulars


Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 23
Location: Delhi

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:30 am    Post subject: Unethical Structural Practice Reply with quote

Our duty is to guide correctly clients/architects and it is their responsibility to follow or not.

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 1:44 PM alpa_sheth <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

Quote:
           Hi,

This is an unusual mail and while we talk about this problem in generalities, this issue concerns a specific consultant. Perhaps this should have come in the shout out forum and not General Discussion Forum. I don't now for sure.

I understand the angst that you, Er Raza Ahsan seem to be experiencing (I'm assuming what you are saying is true), but I can assure you that this Consultant is, unfortunately, not the first nor the last such structural engineer.

There are mainly two types of errors-

Errors of ignorance- Is the consultant doing what he s doing because he does not know good engineering? Is he just dangerously incompetent? In such a case, he needs to either retire or go through a rigorous re-training program.

Errors of Intent- The person knows correct from incorrect engineering but still continues with unsafe, incorrect design and detailing BECAUSE HE MAY PERHAPS HAVE NO MORAL COMPASS AND BECAUSE THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES FOR HIS BEHAVIOUR.

I agree with other esteemed SEFIans who have opined in the matter. I am summarising the choices that you have-

a) Report the consultant to BMC Chief Engineer (Building Proposals). You must write a very neutral, fact-driven letter to him and substantiate your claims with proof. You may be aware the CEs cannot simply destroy a letter they receive. They are bound to take cognisance of every letter they receive. Cc the letter to the Municipal Commissioner and to NDMA, Delhi. You should explain the dangers (all are not structural engineers) and ask- what are the systems that the government has in place to prevent such consultants from practising and being a threat to society. Be warned, consultants like him have friends everywhere. If you cc it to many people, then your letter cannot be ignored.
b) If you are working with him, just QUIT. You will find a job elsewhere.
c) As I mentioned above, know that he is not the only such consultant in Mumbai. There are many others. There is a need to "Drain the Swamp". But it cannot be done without a concerted effort and a competency based licensing system. But even with that, know that YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE VIRTUE. What if the engineer knows how to design right, but still does it wrong?
d) Always differentiate between your 'Circle of Concern' and 'Circle of Influence'. Expend your energy where you can make a difference in a positive way.
e)Also, lastly, ask yourself that you are not being prejudiced when you are assessing his engineering. Always be neutral and unbiased while judging someone else.

Good luck!

best regards,
Alpa

      Raza_Ahsan wrote:                Hello Everyone,
There is a very senior structural Engineer in Mumbai running a structural designing consultancy from more than 25years.
He is not following any codal norms and in his each and every project his violating the codal requirment and many of his projects are not fully safe.
In many of his projects he even design the foundation without stability report and let me tell you such projects have long spans cantilever members.
He even ignore the required reinforcement and give very less reinforcement in columns and other structural members.
Many times he got caught in proof checking and sometimes he manage to come out of it and many times he resigned from the project and run away.
He have unlimited floors license and am shocked how he manage to get that. His employees always inform him about the structure not getting pass by he always forced them to do it in his way or as per his wish.
If anyone still resist than he terminate them or many time harrassed them by continuously torturing in the name of termination.
At the moment he is working with many of the famous architects and he always run on the simple funda of satisfying architectural needs by ignoring the structural stability.
Please let me know what to do in this case and i have proof of all the things which i stated above.
Expecting reply from Senior members of this forum.
Thank you     
     



     


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