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Mumbai Hoarding Collapse: Did BMCs May 2 Letter to Railways Foretell Tragedy? Blame Game Continues
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alpa_sheth
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear All,

Sharing some information on the hoarding collapse that was
published in a local paper on Saturday June 1.


https://www.mid-day.com/mumbai/mumbai-news/article/ghatkopar-hoarding-collapse-engineer-remanded-in-crime-branch-custody-23352124


Best regards,
Alpa Sheth,
Mumbai

bhsolanki wrote:
I think there should be provision of submission of structural drawings with all related calculations also in Building Use permission letter for each local authorities in India, Here In Gujarat we have it for high rise buildings only, for small buildings and other structures authorities do not have any compulsory provisions, due to this many illiterate Graduate Licensed holders are issuing stability certificates for earning and risking the lives of the general public. If there is compulsory submission of structural drawings with structural calculations and check sheet, such mistakes can be controlled at some extent.



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amitjha
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Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear All,

SIT Findings reported in Media : Significant developments on the Mumbai Hoarding Collapse , the structural engineering being arrested. Here are details from Media that may throw more light on the unfortunate collapse event claiming 18 lives. The developments are important for structural engineering community.

a) Firm that designed Ghatkopar hoarding also gave structural stability certificate

Source: https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/firm-that-designed-ghatkopar-hoarding-collapse-also-gave-structural-stability-certificate-9364637/

Ghatkopar Hoarding Collapse: Engineer who said hoarding structure was safe and stable, arrested

https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/ghatkopar-hoarding-collapse-engineer-who-gave-structural-stability-certificate-arrested-9362409/

The Mumbai Crime Branch on Thursday arrested one Manoj Ramkrishna Sangu, an engineer of City Engineering Services (CES), alleging that he had given the structural stability certificate for the hoarding that collapsed in Ghatkopar on May 13, killing 17 people and injuring over 70.

According to the SIT, during interrogation, Sangu admitted that he designed the 33,800 sq ft BPCL petrol pump hoarding. He, however, did not keep an eye on or inspect the construction work of the hoarding when it was being built according to his design, and he also did not see if the structure was being constructed as per standards. He did not duly follow procedure and allegedly gave a structural stability certificate declaring the hoarding as strong in the certificate issued on April 24, 2023, a crime branch source said.

It was required for Sangu to get the proof-checking of the structural design from IIT or VJTI, but probe has revealed that he did not do any proof-checking.

Probe also revealed that the directors of Ego Media Pvt Ltd had put the said hoarding into operation on February 20, 2023, almost two months before Sangu gave the structural stability certificate on April 24, 2023.

Additionally :

100 Notices Against Bhavesh Bhinde, Mumbai Billboard Collapse Accused

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/mumbai-billboard-collapse-ghatkopar-hoarding-100-notices-against-bhavesh-bhinde-ghatkopar-hoarding-collapse-accused-5726802

You may go thru links on newspapers to fully understand current status of the investigations of SIT. As engineering fraternity we have been discussing what we could do to avoid such events. Question is still open ended and a lot need be fixed in the entire value chain, specially roles and responsibilities of structural engineers.

https://www.mid-day.com/mumbai/mumbai-news/article/ghatkopar-hoarding-collapse-engineer-remanded-in-crime-branch-custody-23352124

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bsec
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:30 pm    Post subject: Mumbai Hoarding Collapse: Did BMC’s May 2 Letter to Railways Foretell Tragedy? Blame Game Conti nues Reply with quote

Dear All,May we utilise this opportunity (at the backdrop of the Billboard failure incident) to educate ourselves on the following important matters :
a) What is a Structural Stability Certificate (SSC)? What does it essentially contain? Is there any standard format available for the issuance of SSC?
b) What is the importance of the issuance of a Structural Stability Certificate (SSC) ? Why Clients require such certificates from a Structural Engineer?
c) What all a structural engineer check before issuance of SSC?
d) What should be the fee for issuance of a Structural Stability Certificate?
e) What kind of legal coverage the Structural Stability checker need to take, to cover himself / herself up, in order to prevent the risk of arrest (should there be a failure)?
I request all to kindly share your thoughts for the benefit of all SEFIans
Best Wishes
Alok Bhowmick

FNAE, International PE (India)

Delegation Head (India), ING-fib





Managing Director


B&S Engineering Consultants Pvt. Ltd.
315-316, Vishal Chambers, Sector 18, Noida; U.P - 201301
Tel: +91-120-4570703; 4310433; Mobile : +91-9811175255
Website :www.bsecpl.in

Winner of “IEI Industry Excellence Award 2022”

CEAI National Award winner for “Excellence in Engineering Consultancy Services” for 2017, 2018 & 2023









On Sun, Jun 2, 2024 at 6:13 PM alpa_sheth <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

Quote:
           Dear All,

Sharing some information on the hoarding collapse that was
published in a local paper on Saturday June 1.


https://www.mid-day.com/mumbai/mumbai-news/article/ghatkopar-hoarding-collapse-engineer-remanded-in-crime-branch-custody-23352124


Best regards,
Alpa Sheth,
Mumbai

      bhsolanki wrote:                I think there should be provision of submission of structural drawings with all related calculations also in Building Use permission letter for each local authorities in India, Here In Gujarat we have it for high rise buildings only, for small buildings and other structures authorities do not have any compulsory provisions, due to this many illiterate Graduate Licensed holders are issuing stability certificates for earning and risking the lives of the general public. If there is compulsory submission of structural drawings with structural calculations and check sheet, such mistakes can be controlled at some extent.     
     



     
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IMG_20240602_175551.jpg





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alpa_sheth
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: Mumbai Hoarding Collapse: Did BMC’s May 2 Letter to Railways Foretell Tragedy? Blame Game Conti nues Reply with quote

Dear All:

Lots of info coming in! Thanks Er. Amit Jha.

In addition to what Er. Alok Bhowmick has written in trailing mail, we need to again come back to the basic question- Is it time to again push for a competency based licensing system?

I had a cursory look at the Licensed Str Engrs (Mumbai) list. The designer of the hoarding is a BE (Constn) and has been awarded a license for "unlimited" floors. Which means that he can build a 250 m tall structure too.

So another question is thrown up- How are these licenses given? Is there a transparent process? Is it competency driven?

Do share your thoughts!

regards,
Alpa Sheth

bsec wrote:
Dear All,May we utilise this opportunity (at the backdrop of the Billboard failure incident) to educate ourselves on the following important matters :
a) What is a Structural Stability Certificate (SSC)? What does it essentially contain? Is there any standard format available for the issuance of SSC?
b) What is the importance of the issuance of a Structural Stability Certificate (SSC) ? Why Clients require such certificates from a Structural Engineer?
c) What all a structural engineer check before issuance of SSC?
d) What should be the fee for issuance of a Structural Stability Certificate?
e) What kind of legal coverage the Structural Stability checker need to take, to cover himself / herself up, in order to prevent the risk of arrest (should there be a failure)?
I request all to kindly share your thoughts for the benefit of all SEFIans
Best Wishes
Alok Bhowmick

FNAE, International PE (India)

Delegation Head (India), ING-fib





Managing Director


B&S Engineering Consultants Pvt. Ltd.
315-316, Vishal Chambers, Sector 18, Noida; U.P - 201301
Tel: +91-120-4570703; 4310433; Mobile : +91-9811175255
Website : www.bsecpl.in

       Winner of “IEI Industry Excellence Award 2022”

       CEAI National Award winner for “Excellence in Engineering Consultancy Services” for 2017, 2018 & 2023









On Sun, Jun 2, 2024 at 6:13 PM alpa_sheth <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

Quote:
            Dear All,

Sharing some information on the hoarding collapse that was
published in a local paper on Saturday June 1.


https://www.mid-day.com/mumbai/mumbai-news/article/ghatkopar-hoarding-collapse-engineer-remanded-in-crime-branch-custody-23352124


Best regards,
Alpa Sheth,
Mumbai

      bhsolanki wrote:                I think there should be provision of submission of structural drawings with all related calculations also in Building Use permission letter for each local authorities in India, Here In Gujarat we have it for high rise buildings only, for small buildings and other structures authorities do not have any compulsory provisions, due to this many illiterate Graduate Licensed holders are issuing stability certificates for earning and risking the lives of the general public. If there is compulsory submission of structural drawings with structural calculations and check sheet, such mistakes can be controlled at some extent.     
     



     
Download Attachments:
IMG_20240602_175551.jpg





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V. S. Kelkar
SEFI Member
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Joined: 07 Aug 2014
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 10:30 am    Post subject: {Spam?} Re: Mumbai Hoarding Collapse: Did BMC’s May 2 Letter to Railways Foretell Tragedy? Blame Game Continues Reply with quote

Besides safety issues, citizens should object to ruining of Mumbai skyline by billboards of all sizes appearing everywhere. If one travels from Kalanagar to Sea Link bridge in Bandra one can see invasion of billboards of all sizes  very large to small on both sides with their huge ugly supporting structures. Even the green areas are not spared. Road from Western Express Highway to Terminal 2 was nice and green without any ad boards. But now, commercial benefits govern and on that road also we are seeing ads coming up in increasing numbers. On BKC main road and highways we see large boards on both sides and also on electric poles  everywhere including some new ones which project even on the driving lanes.

We do not see such invasion of billboards on streets of Paris where they are very particular about keeping the city skyline beautiful. Even in London(except areas like Piccadilly) or New York (except for areas like Times Square ) there is no such abundance of bill boards on their main streets.

As citizens we should ask the government to control this invasion of billboards by the ad agencies in collusion with the licencing authorities.

V. S. Kelkar

From: alpa_sheth [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: 03 June 2024 14:29
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: {Spam?} [SEFI] Re: Mumbai Hoarding Collapse: Did BMC’s May 2 Letter to Railways Foretell Tragedy? Blame Game Continues



Dear All:

Lots of info coming in! Thanks Er. Amit Jha.

In addition to what Er. Alok Bhowmick has written in trailing mail, we need to again come back to the basic question- Is it time to again push for a competency based licensing system?

I had a cursory look at the Licensed Str Engrs (Mumbai) list. The designer of the hoarding is a BE (Constn) and has been awarded a license for "unlimited" floors. Which means that he can build a 250 m tall structure too.

So another question is thrown up- How are these licenses given? Is there a transparent process? Is it competency driven?

Do share your thoughts!

regards,
Alpa Sheth
bsec wrote:
Dear All,May we utilise this opportunity (at the backdrop of the Billboard failure incident) to educate ourselves on the following important matters :
a) What is a Structural Stability Certificate (SSC)? What does it essentially contain? Is there any standard format available for the issuance of SSC?
b) What is the importance of the issuance of a Structural Stability Certificate (SSC) ? Why Clients require such certificates from a Structural Engineer?
c) What all a structural engineer check before issuance of SSC?
d) What should be the fee for issuance of a Structural Stability Certificate?
e) What kind of legal coverage the Structural Stability checker need to take, to cover himself / herself up, in order to prevent the risk of arrest (should there be a failure)?
I request all to kindly share your thoughts for the benefit of all SEFIans
Best Wishes
Alok Bhowmick

FNAE, International PE (India)

Delegation Head (India), ING-fib





Managing Director
[IMG]https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4xIQz5Y9deaydhfFEyd1WZdwe2qvWfVEhs4A1LQCnPwS2YbLNH03AAhrWK4hUIC_tJQOheK8-8[/IMG]

B&S Engineering Consultants Pvt. Ltd.
315-316, Vishal Chambers, Sector 18, Noida; U.P - 201301
Tel: +91-120-4570703; 4310433; Mobile : +91-9811175255
Website : www.bsecpl.in

Winner of “IEI Industry Excellence Award 2022â€

CEAI National Award winner for “Excellence in Engineering Consultancy Services†for 2017, 2018 & 2023









On Sun, Jun 2, 2024 at 6:13â€PM alpa_sheth forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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vija.vrk
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 6:30 am    Post subject: Mumbai Hoarding Collapse: Did BMC’s May 2 Letter to Railways Foretell Tragedy? Blame Game Conti nues Reply with quote

I strongly support the suggestion made by Dr V S Kelkar.SEFI, jointly with other professional bodies like IAStructE, ICI, IE, make a joint representation to the Municipal Commisioner and other concerned authorities.
Thanks and regards
Vijay Kulkarni


On Tue, 4 Jun 2024, 02:32 V. S. Kelkar, <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

Quote:
           Besides safety issues, citizens should object to ruining of Mumbai skyline by billboards of all sizes appearing everywhere. If one travels from Kalanagar to Sea Link bridge in Bandra one can see invasion of billboards of all sizes very large to small on both sides with their huge ugly supporting structures. Even the green areas are not spared. Road from Western Express Highway to Terminal 2 was nice and green without any ad boards. But now, commercial benefits govern and on that road also we are seeing ads coming up in increasing numbers. On BKC main road and highways we see large boards on both sides and also on electric poles everywhere including some new ones which project even on the driving lanes.

We do not see such invasion of billboards on streets of Paris where they are very particular about keeping the city skyline beautiful. Even in London(except areas like Piccadilly) or New York (except for areas like Times Square ) there is no such abundance of bill boards on their main streets.

As citizens we should ask the government to control this invasion of billboards by the ad agencies in collusion with the licencing authorities.

V. S. Kelkar

From: alpa_sheth [mailto:forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)]
Sent: 03 June 2024 14:29
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)
Subject: {Spam?} [SEFI] Re: Mumbai Hoarding Collapse: Did BMC’s May 2 Letter to Railways Foretell Tragedy? Blame Game Continues



Dear All:

Lots of info coming in! Thanks Er. Amit Jha.

In addition to what Er. Alok Bhowmick has written in trailing mail, we need to again come back to the basic question- Is it time to again push for a competency based licensing system?

I had a cursory look at the Licensed Str Engrs (Mumbai) list. The designer of the hoarding is a BE (Constn) and has been awarded a license for "unlimited" floors. Which means that he can build a 250 m tall structure too.

So another question is thrown up- How are these licenses given? Is there a transparent process? Is it competency driven?

Do share your thoughts!

regards,
Alpa Sheth
bsec wrote:
Dear All,May we utilise this opportunity (at the backdrop of the Billboard failure incident) to educate ourselves on the following important matters :
a) What is a Structural Stability Certificate (SSC)? What does it essentially contain? Is there any standard format available for the issuance of SSC?
b) What is the importance of the issuance of a Structural Stability Certificate (SSC) ? Why Clients require such certificates from a Structural Engineer?
c) What all a structural engineer check before issuance of SSC?
d) What should be the fee for issuance of a Structural Stability Certificate?
e) What kind of legal coverage the Structural Stability checker need to take, to cover himself / herself up, in order to prevent the risk of arrest (should there be a failure)?
I request all to kindly share your thoughts for the benefit of all SEFIans
Best Wishes
Alok Bhowmick

FNAE, International PE (India)

Delegation Head (India), ING-fib





Managing Director
[IMG]https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4xIQz5Y9deaydhfFEyd1WZdwe2qvWfVEhs4A1LQCnPwS2YbLNH03AAhrWK4hUIC_tJQOheK8-8[/IMG]

B&S Engineering Consultants Pvt. Ltd.
315-316, Vishal Chambers, Sector 18, Noida; U.P - 201301
Tel: +91-120-4570703; 4310433; Mobile : +91-9811175255
Website : www.bsecpl.in

Winner of Ãâ‚Å“IEI Industry Excellence Award 2022Ãâ‚

CEAI National Award winner for Ãâ‚Å“Excellence in Engineering Consultancy ServicesÃâ‚  for 2017, 2018 & 2023









On Sun, Jun 2, 2024 at 6:13Ãâ‚PM alpa_sheth forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)))> wrote:
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JVCSNL
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 9:30 am    Post subject: Mumbai Hoarding Collapse: Did BMC’s May 2 Letter to Railways Foretell Tra gedy? Blame Game Continues Reply with quote

Product branding is highly pushed by marketing fraternity and road side billboards are highly strategic places for such purpose. Billboards on both sides busy roads has lot of economic value, both for buyer and seller.  

While marketing agencies are looking for space to buy at premium prices at strategic locations, the property owners on the sides of busy roads/expressways will be naturally attracted to sell, as it is a very attractive fixed income. In fact, while letting use of the space for billboards, they are not aware of what will happen to their property in case the billboard collapses. Who will love appearance at the cost of additional income? We are in era where everything is measured in terms of economic success, who will object getting benefitted?

If you go around any mid size town in most part of the country, you will witness large hoardings. Earlier, we used to see hoardings with product marketing, but now a days, we must be witnessing personal messages, communities thanking their leaders etc. This is becoming common and the society itself is participating in showcasing many different things we never thought before.  

For authorities also, this has economic value and they would not be objecting.  

A competent engineer would consider the aspect of probabilistic failure for two nearby structures and safety of people, but how many engineers know it and even if they know, they may not know how to do it.  

It is natural to have ideal expectations, but we can’t ignore the reality of economic value that most people are addicted to.

On the licensing topic, addressing how, who and when type of questions, a lot has been discussed since 20 years on this forum. We get a spark when some unique failure occurs, but it subsides as time passes. Safety as such is practiced in a very minimal sense in our society and we don’t value it as it deserves. In my opinion, the quality of engineering knowledge and sense is also deteriorating day by day due to several reasons. Many young (and senior engineers too) may not be able to interpret and use code provision in real technical and practical terms and yet they practice with rock solid confidence. As long as our society ignores sound and neat practice in all professions, stringent compliances will never see the day of light.  

It is easier to put a fire extinguisher to ensure compliance for fire safety. But real compliance is when people working in that area knows how to operate it. Our compliance ends at presence of safety equipment, without assessing its practice when need arise.


Best Regards,

Jignesh V Chokshi


From: vija.vrk <forum@sefindia.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 12:03 PM
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Mumbai Hoarding Collapse: Did BMC’s May 2 Letter to Railways Foretell Tragedy? Blame Game Continues



CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

The Link contained in this mail is external & may be suspect in nature. Think twice before clicking any links. It is advisable to contact your IT Team OR the Sender & get the Link validated.  
I strongly support the suggestion made by Dr V S Kelkar.SEFI, jointly with other professional bodies like IAStructE, ICI, IE, make a joint representation to the Municipal Commisioner and other concerned authorities.
Thanks and regards
Vijay Kulkarni


On Tue, 4 Jun 2024, 02:32 V. S. Kelkar, forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:


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Manas M Ghosh
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:38 am    Post subject: Mumbai hoarding collapse Reply with quote

Current Analysis:

  1. Wind Impact on Stability: Wind significantly affects the stability of hoardings.
  2. Critical Surface Area: The vertical plane of the hoarding, where advertisements are displayed, bears the brunt of wind forces due to its large surface area.
  3. Supporting Structure: The structural support system, comprising angles and smaller components, experiences less wind force due to its relatively smaller surface area.

Suggested Modification:


Concept:Design the advertisement surface (critical surface area) to fail first under high wind conditions, thereby protecting the main supporting structure.

Proposed Solution:

  • Utilize a weaker material, such as flex, for the advertisement surface.
  • Reinforce the flex locally for standard conditions but allow it to tear or fail during extreme wind conditions.

Benefits:

  • When the flex material fails during high winds, it reduces the overall wind load on the supporting structure.
  • This sacrificial failure prevents more significant damage and maintains the structural integrity of the hoarding.

Implementation:

  • Use a structurally weak but adequately reinforced flex material for the advertisement display.
  • Design the flex to withstand regular wind conditions but fail under extreme conditions (e.g., gusts or storms).

Cost Consideration:

  • Replacing the flex material after a storm is cheaper than repairing or replacing the entire structure.
  • Although replacement might be frequent, it is more manageable and cost-effective.

Case Study: Kolkata vs. Mumbai Wind Speeds:

  • Kolkata experiences higher basic wind speeds (50 m/s) compared to Mumbai (44 m/s) and more frequent storms (IS 875-Part 3-2015).
  • The proposed design philosophy is particularly relevant for areas like Kolkata and seems to be followed there.

Aftermath:

  • Post-storm, the damaged flex flutters like flags but protects the main structure.
  • The primary structure remains intact and functional, reducing the risk of catastrophic failure.

Conclusion:Given the tendency to overlook or break rules, adopting a design philosophy that inherently protects critical structures through controlled failure of less critical components is a practical approach for surviving in high wind areas. This method prioritizes safety and cost-effectiveness while ensuring resilience against frequent storms.
Thanks
MMGhosh
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