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What's happening to India's infrastructure?
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vikram.jeet
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I joined Consultancy firm in Delhi :--

The Boss, a renowned Site plus Design  Bridge Expert in M/s GILCON  stated to us budding designers that

SUCCESS BEGETS MANY FATHERS
BUT FAILURE IS ORPHAN

Though Structures are designed by Structural Consultant s keeping safety and economy in view,, snd in accordance with Codal provisions,, The possibility of implementation /execution seems wanting with no/ poor supervision,, and str work is left to mistris, bar benders / welders without the Quality check. PMC concept is very good, if it is supervised religiously. It must be seen that designer's design details are implemented in TOTALITY,,  It is observed that Foot (Foundation) is left weak as not visible and legs ( super str) made strong as visible,  with result that many foundation failures occur, be it buildings,, bridges,, hoardings.

PROOF CHECKING OF ALL STRUCTURES MUST BE MADE OBLIGATORY - When so called minor structures like Boundary walls, Signage, Hoardings fall,  general public is sufferer. It is seen that only Special structures like Bridges etc are proof checked and other structures are left to the prime designer / contrator designer.

To cinclude :-
MAKE PROOF CHECKING OBLIGATORY,, IF CLIENT IS NON TECHNICAL / OR IF TECH BUT NOT HAVING STRUCTURAL DESIGN WING

PMC TO BE MADE OBLIGATORY  AND PMC MUST GIVE 'AS EXECUTED DRGS  ( OR GIVE  THEIR AS EXECUTWD MARKINGS ON DESIGN OFFICE DRGS) .

DESIGN CONSULTANT VISITS MUST BE MADE COMPULSORY  DURING FOUNDATIONS,, AND SUPER STRUCTURES STAGES


MAINTENANCE DOCUMENT MUST BE GIVEN BY PRIME  CONSULTANT

WE CAN REDUCE CHANCES OF FAILURES

SUCCESS IS CELEBRATED AS TEAM,
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nurat
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 4:28 am    Post subject: What's happening to India's infrastructure? Reply with quote

Very good Sir.
1. Very important is INSPECTION and it's report.
2. Every person involved in the project must understand his responsibilities.
3. Last but not least HIGH MORALE  
On Sun, 30 Jun 2024, 09:22 vikram.jeet, <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

Quote:
           When I joined Consultancy firm in Delhi :--

The Boss, a renowned Site plus Design Bridge Expert in M/s GILCON stated to us budding designers that

SUCCESS BEGETS MANY FATHERS
BUT FAILURE IS ORPHAN

Though Structures are designed by Structural Consultant s keeping safety and economy in view,, snd in accordance with Codal provisions,, The possibility of implementation /execution seems wanting with no/ poor supervision,, and str work is left to mistris, bar benders / welders without the Quality check. PMC concept is very good, if it is supervised religiously. It must be seen that designer's design details are implemented in TOTALITY,, It is observed that Foot (Foundation) is left weak as not visible and legs ( super str) made strong as visible, with result that many foundation failures occur, be it buildings,, bridges,, hoardings.

PROOF CHECKING OF ALL STRUCTURES MUST BE MADE OBLIGATORY - When so called minor structures like Boundary walls, Signage, Hoardings fall, general public is sufferer. It is seen that only Special structures like Bridges etc are proof checked and other structures are left to the prime designer / contrator designer.

To cinclude :-
MAKE PROOF CHECKING OBLIGATORY,, IF CLIENT IS NON TECHNICAL / OR IF TECH BUT NOT HAVING STRUCTURAL DESIGN WING

PMC TO BE MADE OBLIGATORY AND PMC MUST GIVE 'AS EXECUTED DRGS ( OR GIVE THEIR AS EXECUTWD MARKINGS ON DESIGN OFFICE DRGS) .

DESIGN CONSULTANT VISITS MUST BE MADE COMPULSORY DURING FOUNDATIONS,, AND SUPER STRUCTURES STAGES


MAINTENANCE DOCUMENT MUST BE GIVEN BY PRIME CONSULTANT

WE CAN REDUCE CHANCES OF FAILURES

SUCCESS IS CELEBRATED AS TEAM,
     



     


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amitjha
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear All

A portion of the roof of the Delhi airport's Terminal-1 collapses and we are seeing it being discussed everywhere including this forum and media.



SEFI discussed in 2009 August when probably same structure experienced issues post heavy storms.

Here is a news clip from SEFI post dating back to August 22, 2009

https://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=16468

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLOHhvHj3ks

Above news clip is just a historical reminder.

I think it will be good if we can go thru the discussion that happened post previous incident in 2009 at this link, often it helps to have historical background of the issue to comprehend the present situation. lets look at the past to decode the present event. Here is the link


https://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=16468


Often politicians take their logic to find reasoning in history, this time it may help us to understand this particular structural failure.  We also need to look if it indeed was same structure being reviewed currently that experienced certain issues in 2009 soon after inauguration.


Best regards
Amit Jha
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dpkurmi
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:30 am    Post subject: What's happening to India's infrastructure? Reply with quote

Alpa Ma'amIt is truly concerning to the STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS !

30-06-2024D. P. Kurmi









On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 7:03 AM alpa_sheth <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

Quote:
           Dear Sefians,

In the past 9 days we've had 5 bridges collapsing in Bihar, Partial collapse of T1 Delhi airport terminal, roof collapse of newly retrofitted Jabalpur airport.

Foundation issues in Bihar are not unknown. So how come collapses keep happening? And airport roof collapses are unconscionable.

What do we as structural engineers do about this state of affairs??

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/under-construction-bridge-collapses-in-bihar-5th-incident-in-9-days-5991861

Alpa Sheth


     



     




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Sanjay Jain
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:30 pm    Post subject: What's happening to India's infrastructure? Reply with quote

Dear friends and technocrats,
Such type of failuerty of structure
May be due to the no proper selection  of materials property  strength and durability.
Joints designs.
Lack of monitoring during construction.
Ignorance of Design and analysis of critical load combination in different axis
Sanjay Jain


On Sat, 29 Jun 2024, 10:52 pm bsec, <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[quote]            Dear Alpa,

Unfortunately, we keep facing this kind of embarrassing situation very frequently and we keep expressing our frustration and helplessness in this forum. It is time for us to seriously ponder as to what action we need to take and how we can best serve the future needs of the society? I think meeting the needs of our society will demand a paradigm shift in our approach, attitude and our behavior as structural engineers. We need to recognise the fact that these frequent structural failures are also reflective of our own incompetence. Are we prepared to accept this reality? Are we prepared to take measures to raise our own competence level? 


About a year and a half back, IAStructE had launched a scheme for engineers desirous to excel in the field of structural engineering and recognise them, after due process, as 'Accredited Structural Engineer - IAStructE' (ASE-IAStructE). The accreditation process includes an interview to assess their professional work vis-à-vis the key attributes and a 07-hour examination in structural design. Similar accreditation process is available in IStructE, UK at a cost which is multiple times the cost at which IAStructE is offering. Unfortunately the response to this call so far is very discouraging. It shows that our structural engineering fraternity is not willing to come out of their comfort zone and take the extra effort to upgrade themselves. It does not matter whether one takes the IStructE, UK accreditation or IAStructE accreditation, but what is important is to upgrade one's knowledge base and become a rounded professional structural engineer with sensitivity to society and environment. 


It is time for us to raise alarm on this issue. Together with Clients we will need to commit ourself to improve our working style and practice to create safer structures. We need to fearlessly report failures so that we can learn important lessons. We have a platform "CROSFALL", where we can fearlessly report about failures as we do not have to disclose names and identity of the project. Let us take some extra pains for the sake of society at large and for our own well being as structural engineers.


Best Wishes
Alok Bhowmick

FNAE, International PE (India)

Delegation Head (India), ING-fib 





Managing Director
https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4xIQz5Y9deaydhfFEyd1WZdwe2qvWfVEhs4A1LQCnPwS2YbLNH03AAhrWK4hUIC_tJQOheK8-8">

B&S Engineering Consultants Pvt. Ltd.
315-316, Vishal Chambers, Sector 18, Noida; U.P - 201301
Tel: +91-120-4570703; 4310433; Mobile : +91-9811175255
Website : www.bsecpl.in
 
·       Winner of “IEI Industry Excellence Award 2022â€

·       CEAI National Award winner for “Excellence in Engineering Consultancy Services†for 2017, 2018 & 2023









On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 7:00 AM alpa_sheth forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

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slsindia
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Joined: 02 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:24 am    Post subject: What's happening to India's infrastructure? Reply with quote

Dear All,

Steel design and detailing is a critical subject. 
Ensuring the force transfer through all elements involved requires great thinking and involvement.
Providing adequate stiffener plates by checking all design aspects requires proper detailing of the joints. This was followed in earlier good olden days and now lacking.
Saving in steel is a good concept and ignoring the design checks is not at all acceptable.


PEB concepts in adapting in the Indian context are ignoring fundamental design checks.


How long the material ultimate strengths and safety factors take care of the design lapses?


This is a million  dollar question.
C SUBRAHMANYAM
          CHIEF CONSULTANT
SLS STRUCTO MECH CONSULTANTS
49-18-20, SREENILAYAM, LALITHA NAGAR,
VISAKHAPATNAM-530016
MO: 9849598424; 7306754857











On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 6:22 PM pankaj.gupta <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[quote]            Has anyone realised that these are all steel structures. Expertise in steel structures is minimal in India specially for architectural type buildings. I find very few people have idea about how proper connections are to be designed and detailed, which is the most critical component in a steel structure.

Also I see numerous steel base plates (the pole type of structures we see everywhere nowadays) just standing on bolts and the contractor has not done grouting below the base plate. This leads all the compression to be transferred through bolts (instead of direct bearing between base plate and concrete) which is a very dangerous situation, specially for stability and sway.


Regards


Pankaj Gupta


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rakesh_kumar
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:30 am    Post subject: What's happening to India's infrastructure? Reply with quote

Dear all,


Its really matter of concern about design, workmanship and planning.


Inspite of peer review from other consultant how these things  happened.


Warm Regards
Rakesh kumar
Structural consultant 
Archivista engg projects pvt ltd 
Baner 
Pune 
9881448429 






On Mon, 1 Jul 2024, 10:56 slsindia, <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

Quote:
           Dear All,

Steel design and detailing is a critical subject. 
Ensuring the force transfer through all elements involved requires great thinking and involvement.
Providing adequate stiffener plates by checking all design aspects requires proper detailing of the joints. This was followed in earlier good olden days and now lacking.
Saving in steel is a good concept and ignoring the design checks is not at all acceptable.


PEB concepts in adapting in the Indian context are ignoring fundamental design checks.


How long the material ultimate strengths and safety factors take care of the design lapses?


This is a million  dollar question.
C SUBRAHMANYAM
          CHIEF CONSULTANT
SLS STRUCTO MECH CONSULTANTS
49-18-20, SREENILAYAM, LALITHA NAGAR,
VISAKHAPATNAM-530016
MO: 9849598424; 7306754857











On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 6:22 PM pankaj.gupta forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

Quote:
           Has anyone realised that these are all steel structures. Expertise in steel structures is minimal in India specially for architectural type buildings. I find very few people have idea about how proper connections are to be designed and detailed, which is the most critical component in a steel structure.

Also I see numerous steel base plates (the pole type of structures we see everywhere nowadays) just standing on bolts and the contractor has not done grouting below the base plate. This leads all the compression to be transferred through bolts (instead of direct bearing between base plate and concrete) which is a very dangerous situation, specially for stability and sway.


Regards


Pankaj Gupta


Sent from my iPhone

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sangeeta_wij
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...


Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 11:30 am    Post subject: What's happening to India's infrastructure? Reply with quote

I agree with your view Pankaj, and feel steel design, detailing and execution leave much to be desired and the fact that all these are EPC products is a point to ponder too; I feel the beurocrats are creating too much pressure and the design/vetting process is not getting diligently completed. Vetting by academics has become a safe route for all EPC Contracts and you must be aware the structural engineer gets the project only if he can guarantee a certain % saving on tender quantities( quoted by the contractor at bidding stage often based on thumb rules and no detailed analysis/design).and of course no accountability is a big reason too.No PE license means a structural engineer can get away with falling bridges and falling buildings if he can gather enough clout and go on with his professional practice, despite such incidents.
last but not the least, there was almost zero cement in the concrete in one of the fallen bridges' pictures/videos and I'm not surprised!


regards
Sangeeta Wij


On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 6:22 PM pankaj.gupta <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[quote]            Has anyone realised that these are all steel structures. Expertise in steel structures is minimal in India specially for architectural type buildings. I find very few people have idea about how proper connections are to be designed and detailed, which is the most critical component in a steel structure.

Also I see numerous steel base plates (the pole type of structures we see everywhere nowadays) just standing on bolts and the contractor has not done grouting below the base plate. This leads all the compression to be transferred through bolts (instead of direct bearing between base plate and concrete) which is a very dangerous situation, specially for stability and sway.


Regards


Pankaj Gupta


Sent from my iPhone

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sangeeta_wij
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Joined: 21 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 11:30 am    Post subject: What's happening to India's infrastructure? Reply with quote

Dear Alok

Whereas it's critically important to upgrade one's skills and knowledge as a structural design engineer and IAStructE is no doubt playing an important role, however accreditation attempts can be successful only by a legally empowered entity like a Council of Engineers( on similar lines as Council of Architects). IAStructE carrying out a 7 hour exam and giving away certificates may or maynot find many takers unless we manage to get the much awaited and much talked about Engineer's Bill.


regards
Sangeeta Wij


On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 5:02 PM bsec <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[quote]            Dear Alpa,

Unfortunately, we keep facing this kind of embarrassing situation very frequently and we keep expressing our frustration and helplessness in this forum. It is time for us to seriously ponder as to what action we need to take and how we can best serve the future needs of the society? I think meeting the needs of our society will demand a paradigm shift in our approach, attitude and our behavior as structural engineers. We need to recognise the fact that these frequent structural failures are also reflective of our own incompetence. Are we prepared to accept this reality? Are we prepared to take measures to raise our own competence level? 


About a year and a half back, IAStructE had launched a scheme for engineers desirous to excel in the field of structural engineering and recognise them, after due process, as 'Accredited Structural Engineer - IAStructE' (ASE-IAStructE). The accreditation process includes an interview to assess their professional work vis-à-vis the key attributes and a 07-hour examination in structural design. Similar accreditation process is available in IStructE, UK at a cost which is multiple times the cost at which IAStructE is offering. Unfortunately the response to this call so far is very discouraging. It shows that our structural engineering fraternity is not willing to come out of their comfort zone and take the extra effort to upgrade themselves. It does not matter whether one takes the IStructE, UK accreditation or IAStructE accreditation, but what is important is to upgrade one's knowledge base and become a rounded professional structural engineer with sensitivity to society and environment. 


It is time for us to raise alarm on this issue. Together with Clients we will need to commit ourself to improve our working style and practice to create safer structures. We need to fearlessly report failures so that we can learn important lessons. We have a platform "CROSFALL", where we can fearlessly report about failures as we do not have to disclose names and identity of the project. Let us take some extra pains for the sake of society at large and for our own well being as structural engineers.


Best Wishes
Alok Bhowmick

FNAE, International PE (India)

Delegation Head (India), ING-fib 





Managing Director
https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4xIQz5Y9deaydhfFEyd1WZdwe2qvWfVEhs4A1LQCnPwS2YbLNH03AAhrWK4hUIC_tJQOheK8-8">

B&S Engineering Consultants Pvt. Ltd.
315-316, Vishal Chambers, Sector 18, Noida; U.P - 201301
Tel: +91-120-4570703; 4310433; Mobile : +91-9811175255
Website : www.bsecpl.in
 
·       Winner of “IEI Industry Excellence Award 2022â€

·       CEAI National Award winner for “Excellence in Engineering Consultancy Services†for 2017, 2018 & 2023









On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 7:00 AM alpa_sheth forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

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bsec
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 1:30 pm    Post subject: What's happening to India's infrastructure? Reply with quote

Dear Sangeeta,

I believe that going through the process of professional accreditation, as proposed by IAStructE (or by any other similar institution, like for example IStructE, UK) can offer several benefits to one’s professional career, irrespective of whether the association is legally empowered or not as a regulator. 
Ultimately, the decision that one should take in this regard should depend on one’s own career goals and aspirations. If you are looking to enhance your professional standing, build a strong network, and access resources for professional development, then joining a professional association like IAStructE and pursuing the accreditation process can be a valuable investment in one’s career. You can't wait for an infinite period for Engineers Bill for upgrading your skills.
I think many Young Engineers are avoiding to go through this difficult process of accreditation due to fear of failure. But my advice would be to remove this fear and go forward. Afterall its one’s own career.

Best Wishes
Alok Bhowmick

FNAE, International PE (India)

Delegation Head (India), ING-fib 







Managing Director


B&S Engineering Consultants Pvt. Ltd.
315-316, Vishal Chambers, Sector 18, Noida; U.P - 201301
Tel: +91-120-4570703; 4310433; Mobile : +91-9811175255


·       Winner of “IEI Industry Excellence Award 2022”

·       CEAI National Award winner for “Excellence in Engineering Consultancy Services” for 2017, 2018 & 2023









On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 5:35 PM sangeeta_wij <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

Quote:
           Dear Alok

Whereas it's critically important to upgrade one's skills and knowledge as a structural design engineer and IAStructE is no doubt playing an important role, however accreditation attempts can be successful only by a legally empowered entity like a Council of Engineers( on similar lines as Council of Architects). IAStructE carrying out a 7 hour exam and giving away certificates may or maynot find many takers unless we manage to get the much awaited and much talked about Engineer's Bill.


regards
Sangeeta Wij


On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 5:02 PM bsec forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

Quote:
           Dear Alpa,

Unfortunately, we keep facing this kind of embarrassing situation very frequently and we keep expressing our frustration and helplessness in this forum. It is time for us to seriously ponder as to what action we need to take and how we can best serve the future needs of the society? I think meeting the needs of our society will demand a paradigm shift in our approach, attitude and our behavior as structural engineers. We need to recognise the fact that these frequent structural failures are also reflective of our own incompetence. Are we prepared to accept this reality? Are we prepared to take measures to raise our own competence level? 


About a year and a half back, IAStructE had launched a scheme for engineers desirous to excel in the field of structural engineering and recognise them, after due process, as 'Accredited Structural Engineer - IAStructE' (ASE-IAStructE). The accreditation process includes an interview to assess their professional work vis-à-vis the key attributes and a 07-hour examination in structural design. Similar accreditation process is available in IStructE, UK at a cost which is multiple times the cost at which IAStructE is offering. Unfortunately the response to this call so far is very discouraging. It shows that our structural engineering fraternity is not willing to come out of their comfort zone and take the extra effort to upgrade themselves. It does not matter whether one takes the IStructE, UK accreditation or IAStructE accreditation, but what is important is to upgrade one's knowledge base and become a rounded professional structural engineer with sensitivity to society and environment. 


It is time for us to raise alarm on this issue. Together with Clients we will need to commit ourself to improve our working style and practice to create safer structures. We need to fearlessly report failures so that we can learn important lessons. We have a platform "CROSFALL", where we can fearlessly report about failures as we do not have to disclose names and identity of the project. Let us take some extra pains for the sake of society at large and for our own well being as structural engineers.


Best Wishes
Alok Bhowmick

FNAE, International PE (India)

Delegation Head (India), ING-fib 





Managing Director
https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4xIQz5Y9deaydhfFEyd1WZdwe2qvWfVEhs4A1LQCnPwS2YbLNH03AAhrWK4hUIC_tJQOheK8-8">

B&S Engineering Consultants Pvt. Ltd.
315-316, Vishal Chambers, Sector 18, Noida; U.P - 201301
Tel: +91-120-4570703; 4310433; Mobile : +91-9811175255
Website : www.bsecpl.in
 
·       Winner of â€Å“IEI Industry Excellence Award 2022â€

·       CEAI National Award winner for â€Å“Excellence in Engineering Consultancy Services†for 2017, 2018 & 2023









On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 7:00 AM alpa_sheth forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)))> wrote:

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