www.sefindia.org

[rakesh_kumar]

Dear all  
Any one have any idea when the status of structural engg will change in india,
All the time for any failure structural designers are questioned.
Regards
Rakesh kumar
Pune
9881448429  
On Tue, 20 Aug 2024, 06:38 bmbiradar, <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[quote]            There are many bridges fail during construction in Europe, US and other states in India as well. Their media don't publicize the matter but the technical authority take it as serious and better project/risk management aligned with standards. In India it's exactly opposite in nature.We have tried our best to implement the horizontal capacity of the pile for scour condition but response from contractor and client was not positive.
Simply comparing the unscientific methods for reducing the cost and escaping from testing will not help in these kind of issues.
Similar to bridge load testing geotechnical load tests are must against environmental conditions and quality of strata.


On Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 11:16 AM amitjha forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

      --auto removed--

Posted via Email

[jijipanickerk]

Dear All,


Various aspects are being discussed due to the recent frequent bridge collapses reported in Bihar.  This involved old and under-construction bridges. So a multi-pronged approach is needed. 


In the backdrop of frequent failures, there should be a technical audit on all old bridges and there should be action to classify them based on the allowable loads and to restrict the traffic accordingly. If found in dangerous condition according to the latest Code provisions, those bridges should be decommissioned. Regarding the failure of under-construction bridges, reasons may be attributed to various aspects, viz., inordinate delays in execution which would result in various technical and administrative anomalies, lack of competence to foresee the imminent failures in case of erroneous practices and technical glitches, factors/conditions/loading scenario unaddressed during the design, errors in construction methodology, lack of frequent competent 3rd party inspection on quality control and the reviews and remedial measures, etc.


The technologies, Code provisions, and Competencies of Engineers and Contractors here in INDIA are not at all inferior to any other Country in the World, according to my perception. The failures are caused because of the way it is implemented. There should be stringent measures in pre-qualification, strict implementation of the Contract scrupulously vis-a-vis the conditions stipulated in the Contract and strict quality control to check the occurrence of such incidents in the future that may tarnish the reputation of Civil Engineering fraternity and Construction sector in India.


Regards,


Er. Jiji Panicker K




On Thu, 20 Jun 2024 at 13:33, astomar <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[quote]            Hi All,


This is very sad and shocking to hear news of bridge collapses in India and specifically in Bihar. I believe to avoid such failure in infrastructure projects , Government should implement strict CDM (Construction,Design and Management ) regulations similar to UK and other developing countries . 


Structural design of each bridges should have 3rd party independent review and approval system and construction milestone should have regular site inspections and certification by 3rd party so that no influence of Design company or Contractor company affect the finding and approval process. Project budget should accommodate these 3rd party review and inspection cost and it should be clearly mentioned in Contract.


 There should be proper escalation Matrix where in case of any significant issue found during review or inspection then no work is allowed till issue is resolved.  Role and Responsibilty of Design Engineer, Contractor and Client should be fixed and Quality procedure should be implemented on site for safe execution of project with taking all precautions of health and safety.


Any incident of failure and its causes should be reported in public with full transparency so that lesson can be learnt from it for all engineering community.




Regards


Alok Singh Tomar
(M.E.I)
Lead Engineer - Bridges & Civil.
Founder and Contributor of Learning platform ( https://scaleupmyskill.com) 
Mob 9769347543












On Thu, 20 Jun 2024, 11:16 amitjha, forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

      --auto removed--

Posted via Email

[shaktisagar3137]

Very true Sir. The reason for failing of foundations is  due to the  casual approach in  proof checking of designs by academicians where in depth analysis is not performed and in most cases the drawings are stamped with a go ahead for construction. The other factors is related to the integrity of the site engineer of the contractor as well as the PMC etc who donot monitor the depths achieved religiously. The quality control exercised while plugging of Wells at the designed depth is also most of the times a cause of concern resulting into such failures.  
On Tue, 20 Aug, 2024, 6:39 am bmbiradar, <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[quote]            There are many bridges fail during construction in Europe, US and other states in India as well. Their media don't publicize the matter but the technical authority take it as serious and better project/risk management aligned with standards. In India it's exactly opposite in nature.We have tried our best to implement the horizontal capacity of the pile for scour condition but response from contractor and client was not positive.
Simply comparing the unscientific methods for reducing the cost and escaping from testing will not help in these kind of issues.
Similar to bridge load testing geotechnical load tests are must against environmental conditions and quality of strata.


On Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 11:16 AM amitjha forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

      --auto removed--

Posted via Email

[pankaj.gupta]

SPOILER ALERT: PANDORA’S BOX
The staggering array of structural collapses over recent months should serve as an eye opener for the entire AEC community alongwith other stakeholders like clients, contractors and the government. A major relook is needed at where are we heading to. The entire process right from the methodology of awarding contracts (both design and execution) to implementation, QA/QC systems, assigned responsibilities/accountabilities and due diligence need to be revisited with a fine-tooth comb.
Although, we as a fraternity of Structural Engineers would be quick to point fingers elsewhere like politics, corruption, L1 culture, poor execution quality, sub-standard materials, and ad-infinitum, it would be worthwhile to look within too, and OUR not-so-minor contribution to this rotten system.  
Don’t we grab work at the lowest rates (citing inability to get higher rates due to market conditions)? Who creates the market conditions? If we are willing to work at pathetic and unsustainable rates, how will the market improve?  
Don’t we grab projects left by other SEs (for whatever reasons)? Do we try to find the reason why somebody else could not continue with that project? Do we ever try to contact that Engineer and find out the reasons?  
How then can we do justice to the work? Let me illustrate with an example. Suppose a work requires 1,000 man-hours to do it properly, and suppose the average rate is Rs 2,000 per man-hour, then the fees should be Rs. 20 Lakhs. But if we pick up that work in 10 or 12 Lakhs, then what will happen? Are we going to work at a loss? No of course NOT. So, what we do is to start cutting corners. We don’t give enough time to think, plan, research, review and do due diligence, as the work can be managed without these, without anyone else being wiser about it. We handover the work to a mid-level engineer and he will make a STAAD model and get the drawings made and proclaim that the work has been done. So effectively we have become DALAALS who can secure work and get it done by cheap and inexperienced Engineers which we hire at a pittance.
I’m sorry to say that this IS the current scenario in India. And it DOES have consequences, sometimes very serious consequences. People die, property and national wealth gets damaged, public is inconvenienced.
Why? Because we don’t have the spine to stand up to demand better rates to enable us to do proper work. Unless we are willing to do that, this state of affairs will continue and keep getting worse, and such disasters will keep occurring at an accelerated frequency and intensity.  
Best Regards

Pankaj Gupta
Managing Partner
Roark Consulting Engineers
India: +91-981-143-7987
US: +1-602-500-7652
Baku: +994-555-036-157  
http://roarkconsultants.com/


From: jiji_panicker.k <forum@sefindia.org>
Sent: 30 August 2024 16:07
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Another bridge collapses (again) in Bihar



Dear All,


Various aspects are being discussed due to the recent frequent bridge collapses reported in Bihar. This involved old and under-construction bridges. So a multi-pronged approach is needed.


In the backdrop of frequent failures, there should be a technical audit on all old bridges and there should be action to classify them based on the allowable loads and to restrict the traffic accordingly. If found in dangerous condition according to the latest Code provisions, those bridges should be decommissioned. Regarding the failure of under-construction bridges, reasons may be attributed to various aspects, viz., inordinate delays in execution which would result in various technical and administrative anomalies, lack of competence to foresee the imminent failures in case of erroneous practices and technical glitches, factors/conditions/loading scenario unaddressed during the design, errors in construction methodology, lack of frequent competent 3rd party inspection on quality control and the reviews and remedial measures, etc.


The technologies, Code provisions, and Competencies of Engineers and Contractors here in INDIA are not at all inferior to any other Country in the World, according to my perception. The failures are caused because of the way it is implemented. There should be stringent measures in pre-qualification, strict implementation of the Contract scrupulously vis-a-vis the conditions stipulated in the Contract and strict quality control to check the occurrence of such incidents in the future that may tarnish the reputation of Civil Engineering fraternity and Construction sector in India.


Regards,


Er. Jiji Panicker K




On Thu, 20 Jun 2024 at 13:33, astomar forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

[hemraj chanchal]

Dear AllIt's disheartening that the bridge collapses continue to occur in Bihar, and it's easy to point fingers at contractors and engineers. However, rather than placing blame, we should focus on finding sustainable solutions. My suggestion, as previously mentioned, is to establish an organization dedicated to reviewing designs before construction and providing ongoing supervision of construction projects. This organization could be staffed by a team of well-experienced engineers.
Hemraj Chanchal
Executive Director
Hc Constructions and Consulting Engineers


On Sun, 1 Sept 2024 at 14:06, pankaj.gupta <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[quote]            SPOILER ALERT: PANDORA’S BOX
The staggering array of structural collapses over recent months should serve as an eye opener for the entire AEC community alongwith other stakeholders like clients, contractors and the government. A major relook is needed at where are we heading to. The entire process right from the methodology of awarding contracts (both design and execution) to implementation, QA/QC systems, assigned responsibilities/accountabilities and due diligence need to be revisited with a fine-tooth comb.
Although, we as a fraternity of Structural Engineers would be quick to point fingers elsewhere like politics, corruption, L1 culture, poor execution quality, sub-standard materials, and ad-infinitum, it would be worthwhile to look within too, and OUR not-so-minor contribution to this rotten system.
Don’t we grab work at the lowest rates (citing inability to get higher rates due to market conditions)? Who creates the market conditions? If we are willing to work at pathetic and unsustainable rates, how will the market improve?
Don’t we grab projects left by other SEs (for whatever reasons)? Do we try to find the reason why somebody else could not continue with that project? Do we ever try to contact that Engineer and find out the reasons?
How then can we do justice to the work? Let me illustrate with an example. Suppose a work requires 1,000 man-hours to do it properly, and suppose the average rate is Rs 2,000 per man-hour, then the fees should be Rs. 20 Lakhs. But if we pick up that work in 10 or 12 Lakhs, then what will happen? Are we going to work at a loss? No of course NOT. So, what we do is to start cutting corners. We don’t give enough time to think, plan, research, review and do due diligence, as the work can be managed without these, without anyone else being wiser about it. We handover the work to a mid-level engineer and he will make a STAAD model and get the drawings made and proclaim that the work has been done. So effectively we have become DALAALS who can secure work and get it done by cheap and inexperienced Engineers which we hire at a pittance.
I’m sorry to say that this IS the current scenario in India. And it DOES have consequences, sometimes very serious consequences. People die, property and national wealth gets damaged, public is inconvenienced.
Why? Because we don’t have the spine to stand up to demand better rates to enable us to do proper work. Unless we are willing to do that, this state of affairs will continue and keep getting worse, and such disasters will keep occurring at an accelerated frequency and intensity.
Best Regards

Pankaj Gupta
Managing Partner
Roark Consulting Engineers
India: +91-981-143-7987
US: +1-602-500-7652
Baku: +994-555-036-157
http://roarkconsultants.com/


From: jiji_panicker.k
Sent: 30 August 2024 16:07
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Another bridge collapses (again) in Bihar



Dear All,


Various aspects are being discussed due to the recent frequent bridge collapses reported in Bihar. This involved old and under-construction bridges. So a multi-pronged approach is needed.


In the backdrop of frequent failures, there should be a technical audit on all old bridges and there should be action to classify them based on the allowable loads and to restrict the traffic accordingly. If found in dangerous condition according to the latest Code provisions, those bridges should be decommissioned. Regarding the failure of under-construction bridges, reasons may be attributed to various aspects, viz., inordinate delays in execution which would result in various technical and administrative anomalies, lack of competence to foresee the imminent failures in case of erroneous practices and technical glitches, factors/conditions/loading scenario unaddressed during the design, errors in construction methodology, lack of frequent competent 3rd party inspection on quality control and the reviews and remedial measures, etc.


The technologies, Code provisions, and Competencies of Engineers and Contractors here in INDIA are not at all inferior to any other Country in the World, according to my perception. The failures are caused because of the way it is implemented. There should be stringent measures in pre-qualification, strict implementation of the Contract scrupulously vis-a-vis the conditions stipulated in the Contract and strict quality control to check the occurrence of such incidents in the future that may tarnish the reputation of Civil Engineering fraternity and Construction sector in India.


Regards,


Er. Jiji Panicker K




On Thu, 20 Jun 2024 at 13:33, astomar forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)))> wrote:

      --auto removed--

Posted via Email

[dhanada_mishra]

Dear All;


I strongly believe that autonomous AI-powered inspection of all construction sites and periodic but regular post-construction structural inspection is the only solution to improve the quality of construction and repair/maintenance badly needed in India. There is a big move towards drones and other forms of robotic inspection which generate data that can be uploaded to the cloud in real-time and analysed to create insights that can lead to preventive actions. We are providing such technology. See our website at www.consultdkm.co.in. I am happy to discuss this in detail if you are interested.


Regards;
Dhanada



On Mon, Sep 2, 2024 at 4:38 PM hemraj chanchal <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[quote]            Dear AllIt's disheartening that the bridge collapses continue to occur in Bihar, and it's easy to point fingers at contractors and engineers. However, rather than placing blame, we should focus on finding sustainable solutions. My suggestion, as previously mentioned, is to establish an organization dedicated to reviewing designs before construction and providing ongoing supervision of construction projects. This organization could be staffed by a team of well-experienced engineers.
Hemraj Chanchal
Executive Director
Hc Constructions and Consulting Engineers


On Sun, 1 Sept 2024 at 14:06, pankaj.gupta forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

[Beaver31]

Hi all, 


After reading the thread, there's one solution that I feel should be implemented in India and become a standard protocol. 


That solution is Structural health monitoring. It's a part of active QA and getting data from various structures of different types and using AI we can make predictions on the current status of the structure after casting. 
SHM monitors vibrations and use that vibration data to analyse using mathematical models. Such analysis can give an idea of any deformity or quality hazard. In such case, any major calamity can be taken care of beforehand. 


Thanks and regards
Nitesh Jain


On Mon, 2 Sept, 2024, 4:58 pm hemraj chanchal, <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[Mohammed Iqbal]

Hi friends  
On Mon, 2 Sept, 2024, 2:09 pm hemraj chanchal, <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[e80707]

Hi All,


Writing to discuss a critical aspect of bridge projectmanagement that has significant implications for both safety and long-termsuccess. Despite the involvement of various project management consultants,there have been notable failures in bridge projects, including a case thatexemplifies the consequences of insufficient consideration during the designphase. Case study; https://youtu.be/F2rg_qPOFFo<o></o>


One such case study highlights a bridge project that, despite theappointment of internationally recognized project management professionals, ultimately failed due to inadequate planning and oversight. A detailed review of the project revealed that critical factors such as traffic loading and geotechnical assessments were not sufficiently addressed in the initial design phase. <o></o>


The failure to accurately predict and incorporate traffic loading into thedesign resulted in structural deficiencies that became apparent only after the bridge was put into use. Similarly, geotechnical considerations were overlooked, leading to instability issues that compromised the integrity of the structure. These oversights underscore the importance of thorough due diligence and the necessity of integrating comprehensive evaluations of all relevantvariables during the design process.<o></o>


This case serves as a stark reminder that even with expert consultants on board, the responsibility for a successful project ultimately rests on the foundational design considerations made at the outset. Effective communication and collaboration between engineers, geotechnical specialists, and traffic analysts are essential to preemptively identify and mitigate risks.<o></o>


Moving forward, it is imperative that we learn from such failures andadvocate for a more rigorous approach to the design phase of bridge projects.
By prioritizing comprehensive assessments and fostering a culture ofaccountability, we can better ensure the safety and reliability of ourinfrastructure.<o></o>
Refer case study ;
https://youtu.be/F2rg_qPOFFo


Regards,
Mihir Soneji
T/M: +61451875530

[e80707]

https://youtu.be/hUyc2TicukM

I am writing to discuss a critical aspect of bridge project management that has significant implications for both safety and long-term success. Despite the involvement of various project management consultants, there have been notable failures in bridge projects, including a case that exemplifies the consequences of insufficient consideration during the design phase.
One such case study highlights a bridge project that, despite the appointment of internationally recognized project management professionals, ultimately failed due to inadequate planning and oversight. A detailed review of the project revealed that critical factors such as traffic loading and geotechnical assessments were not sufficiently addressed in the initial design phase.  
The failure to accurately predict and incorporate traffic loading into the design resulted in structural deficiencies that became apparent only after the bridge was put into use. Similarly, geotechnical considerations were overlooked, leading to instability issues that compromised the integrity of the structure. These oversights underscore the importance of thorough due diligence and the necessity of integrating comprehensive evaluations of all relevant variables during the design process.
This case serves as a stark reminder that even with expert consultants on board, the responsibility for a successful project ultimately rests on the foundational design considerations made at the outset. Effective communication and collaboration between engineers, geotechnical specialists, and traffic analysts are essential to preemptively identify and mitigate risks.
Moving forward, it is imperative that we learn from such failures and advocate for a more rigorous approach to the design phase of bridge projects. By prioritizing comprehensive assessments and fostering a culture of accountability, we can better ensure the safety and reliability of our infrastructure.
Refer case study:


https://youtu.be/hUyc2TicukM


Regards,
Mihir Soneji
PH/M: +61451875530



On Thu, 20 Jun 2024 at 18:03, astomar <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[quote]            Hi All,


This is very sad and shocking to hear news of bridge collapses in India and specifically in Bihar. I believe to avoid such failure in infrastructure projects , Government should implement strict CDM (Construction,Design and Management ) regulations similar to UK and other developing countries . 


Structural design of each bridges should have 3rd party independent review and approval system and construction milestone should have regular site inspections and certification by 3rd party so that no influence of Design company or Contractor company affect the finding and approval process. Project budget should accommodate these 3rd party review and inspection cost and it should be clearly mentioned in Contract.


 There should be proper escalation Matrix where in case of any significant issue found during review or inspection then no work is allowed till issue is resolved.  Role and Responsibilty of Design Engineer, Contractor and Client should be fixed and Quality procedure should be implemented on site for safe execution of project with taking all precautions of health and safety.


Any incident of failure and its causes should be reported in public with full transparency so that lesson can be learnt from it for all engineering community.




Regards


Alok Singh Tomar
(M.E.I)
Lead Engineer - Bridges & Civil.
Founder and Contributor of Learning platform ( https://scaleupmyskill.com) 
Mob 9769347543












On Thu, 20 Jun 2024, 11:16 amitjha, forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

      --auto removed--

Posted via Email