www.sefindia.org

STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING FORUM OF INDIA [SEFI]

 Forum SubscriptionsSubscriptions DigestDigest Preferences   FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister FAQSecurity Tips FAQDonate
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log in to websiteLog in to websiteLog in to websiteLog in to forum 
Warning: Make sure you scan the downloaded attachment with updated antivirus tools  before opening them. They may contain viruses.
Use online scanners
here and here to upload downloaded attachment to check for safety.

One Way Shear critical section overlap in Footings with closely spaced Columns

 
Post new topicReply to topic Thank Post    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> SEFI General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nikhilbidri
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2018
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:32 am    Post subject: One Way Shear critical section overlap in Footings with closely spaced Columns Reply with quote

Dear Sefians,
I have a query regarding the check for one way shear in footings where the critical sections overlap with eachother due to closely spaced columns.
Assume a case that if the combined footing depth is 1200mm and the clear distance between the column faces is 2000mm, the critical section for one way shear will overlap with each other for both the columns, in such cases is it ok to ignore the one way shear check?

My understanding says that even if critical sections overlap we have to check for the one way shear at critical sections for both the columns. But some of the structural engineers are ignoring one way shear if the critical sections overlap because of the absence of any guideline regarding the same.

Is there any technical reference for such cases?

Please provide your valuable guidance.

Thanks in advance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vikram.jeet
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 3903

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By thinking logically :-

For Two way Shear to be checked at d/2 - if Columns are closer than d,  then two way shear will overlap on this direction,, and There is need to check assuming Two columns and a perimeter al-around  both at d/2 ,,

For one way shear : If columns are closer than 2d  - shear critical  sec overlaps in closely spaced columns,, I think better to check one  way shear at mid section between the two columns ,  but if columns are closer than d,, the one way shear check between columns not required,,

My personal opinion,, could always be debated for my further distant learning.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nikhilbidri
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2018
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 9:11 am    Post subject: One Way Shear critical section overlap in Footings with closely spaced Columns Reply with quote

Thank you for your reply.
I agree and am aligned with your logic.

For punching shear it is clear in text books as well that when critical sections for 2 way shear overlap we need to check for the combined effect.

But for one way shear it is not clearly explained for conditions where the critical sections overlap. Because of this some engineers totally ignore checking one way shear in such conditions.

Hence is it ok to ignore the one way shear even if the one way shear critical sections are overlapping just for a small distance.

Is there any technical reference in which this condition is explained.?

Can any Senior Engineer's in this forum guide on this please.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JVCSNL
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 4:23 am    Post subject: One Way Shear critical section overlap in Footings with closely spaced Columns Reply with quote

It is imperative to perform the one-way shear strength check of the RC section.  

When the beam shear section of one column overlap with the region of other nearby columns, the shear failure will not happen at distance d, but can happen at the midpoint between two columns and shear check can be done at midpoint.

Since, the shear section now chosen is less than distance 'd' from face of column, the shear strength calculated from Table 19 shall be increased. You may refer section 40.5 IS 456 or other overseas codes for additional guidance.

Shear check cannot be ignored as you and other experts have rightly explained.  

I hope this helps.

Jignesh V Chokshi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nikhilbidri
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2018
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:04 am    Post subject: ne Way Shear critical section overlap in Footings with closely spaced Columns Reply with quote

Thank you for your inputs Mr. Jignesh.

My only concern is that some Structural engineers are taking disadvantage due to lack of proper explanation for such cases in codes as well as in books and are completely ignoring the one way shear check even if the one way shear sections overlap just for a small distance.

Hope so that some seniors take this into cognizance and publish some technical explanation/guideline over this issue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vikram.jeet
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 3903

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2024 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shear check - is a must

One way shear needs to be checked at mid section of two columns spacing distance,, in situation under discussion  

To just summarize : (Statement already given in my previous post and also seconded by Er Jignesh saheb) .

In case clear Distance between columns is more than 2* d One way Shear check at d - as usual and  clearly spelt out in Codes

In case Clear distance between columns is Less than  2*d but greater than d  - One way Shear check at mid section of column spacing

In case clear distance between columns is less than d  - No one way shear check

Rate of change of bending moment is shear force (one way) . In case BM is constant (uniform) in certain reach of span ,, The SF is NIL in that zone of span.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rahul.leslie
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 511
Location: Trivandrum

PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2024 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I presume, enhanced shear capacity due to shear span 'av' being less than 2d too can be utilized...

...btw, can you please attach a sketch of a section of the footing along a line connecting the two columns, with the SF diagram marked?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
vikram.jeet
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 3903

PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enhanced shear capacity can be taken in above case as per IS 456 as enlightened by Er Rahul saheb.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spsvasan
...
...


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: One Way Shear critical section overlap in Footings with closely spaced Columns Reply with quote

nikhilbidri wrote:
Dear Sefians,
I have a query regarding the check for one way shear in footings where the critical sections overlap with eachother due to closely spaced columns.
Assume a case that if the combined footing depth is 1200mm and the clear distance between the column faces is 2000mm, the critical section for one way shear will overlap with each other for both the columns, in such cases is it ok to ignore the one way shear check?

My understanding says that even if critical sections overlap we have to check for the one way shear at critical sections for both the columns. But some of the structural engineers are ignoring one way shear if the critical sections overlap because of the absence of any guideline regarding the same.

Is there any technical reference for such cases?

Please provide your valuable guidance.

Thanks in advance.



For normal theory of flexure to be applicable, it is necessary that the span is of the order of 10 times the depth of the beam

In this case, I think the span/depth ratio is likely to be about 1.

Hence the strut-and-tie method will be more appropriate. Hence I feel that shear need not be checked between the columns

S.P.Srinivasan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topicReply to topic Thank Post    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> SEFI General Discussion All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


© 2003, 2008 SEFINDIA, Indian Domain Registration
Publishing or acceptance of an advertisement is neither a guarantee nor endorsement of the advertiser's product or service. advertisement policy