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Welcome to the Econference on Design and Construction of Tal
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gautam chattopadhyay
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Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 128

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:46 am    Post subject: Welcome to the Econference on Design and Construction of Tal Reply with quote

Aloke, your first point is very valid. In fact in nuclear power plants design is done against missile loads (load specification I should not disclose). In tall buildings since stiffness will be less, if I simplify to assume the entire building as a SDOF system, there must be a balance between stiffness and mass. In that way we can achieve at some natural frequency not very low to show high time period or not very high to show a near zero period. We should go for lighter materials than our conventional RCC. In India light weight buildings are in practice in earthquake prone North East where customarily timber is used as a building material. In these days we can think of FRP or recycled PET, which is being introduced in bridge construction now. The third point I dont agree with. Why shall we construct tall buildings in earthquake prone areas where risk of liquefaction of soil prevails? We can again learn from North East, particularly Nagaland, where there are hidden streams below the ground (hillocks) and buildings are built not more than two storeyes.

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 7:37 PM, bsec <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear All,

It would be great if following topics are also included in the discussions pertaining to Tall Buildings :

a) Design Strategy (if any) to prevent complete collapse of Building under terror attacks (Post 9/11).
b) Infusion of any new building material, which we look forward to for achieving newer height of TALL BUILDINGS
c) Importance of Liquefaction Analysis in case of TALL BUILDINGS, particularly in seismic prone areas.

Best Wishes

Alok Bhowmick

From: sunilgurtoo [mailto:forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:00 AM
To: econf34289@sefindia.org (econf34289@sefindia.org)
Subject: [E-CONF] Re: Welcome to the Econference on Design and Construction of Tal




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Cyrus Pithawalla
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Joined: 08 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Welcome to the Econference on Design and Construction of Tal Reply with quote

Can somebody highlight on the issues of Reinforcement consumption of the construction area of a tall bldg say 30 storeys high plus 2 basements ??
Secondly is flat slab preferable for lesser Reinforcement consumption ??
The above questions have been raised since flat slab construction is quite fast , especially due to the current scarcity of labour force.
Regards
     C   K   Pithawalla
On Nov 19, 2012 11:00 AM, "Econf_Moderator" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear All: 


Greetings and welcome to the E-conference on Design and Construction of Tall Buildings in India. As has been mentioned earlier the conference will run Nov. 19 through Nov 28. 


A few pointers on Econference protocol. 



* All topics pertaining to Tall Buildings may be discussed and we will  urge all of you to participate in adding value to a topic with informed and well-thought out comments so as to maintain the  standard of the Econference to international quality. We request that you please keep your subject note or comment on an issue crisp and  topical. 


* Any issues which are not core to the technical part of the Econference may please be discussed on the SpeakOut forum, not in the Econference, please. 


* Kindly limit  discussions to   max of two issues pertaining to tall buildings  in a single mail. The issues should be in different paragraphs. Also, when differing with another commentator, pl exercise utmost civility while expressing  your disagreement. 


We had suggested some topics for discussion and we had received valuable input from all of you. We have incorporated your suggestions and produced a revised list as under. This is not an exhaustive list and other pertinent technical issues can be added as required. 


We have a list of subject experts for the Econference. We will introduce them along the way. We look forward to some exciting days ahead..... 


warm regards,


Alpa Sheth 
Prof CVR Murry
Prof Swaminathan Krishnan 


Econference Moderators 


*********************

           

Topics for Tall Buildings Conference
  
What do we define as a tall building?

a)      Siting of tall buildings:  
      i Where are tall buildings allowed/not allowed to be sited?
b)      Geotechnical  Issues 
  •   Soil Testing for Tall Buildings. 
  •   Testing for establishing soil and pile modulus 

c)      General Parameters of Tall Buildings 
  •  Geometric Proportioning 
  •  Height and Aspect Ratio 
  •  General Distribution and area of  Vertical  and Lateral load carrying elements as % of plan area for concrete and steel structures. 
  • Min required stiffness of building 
  • Perimeter offset to avoid pounding 
d)       Structural Configuration, Structural Systems and their Behaviour 
  •   Selection of Structural system- Preliminary behavior analysis   of alternative systems 
  • Discussion of Strucutral Sustems- Frames, Shear Walls, Frame-Shear Walls, Slab-Column Shear Wall structure, Tube Stucture, Hybrid Structure.....
  •   Performance of different structural systems; 
  •   What levels of ductility are achievable in the lateral force resisting systems being constructed in India?  What should the value of R be? 
  • Hybrid Structural Systems and their behaviour 
  •  Achieving  redundancy and alternative load path 

d)      Load Combinations 

e)       Use of Masonry partition walls in tall buildings
  •  Should they be included in  analysis? 
  •  Should they be isolated from structure or not? 
  •  Any special specifications for partition walls of  tall buildings?  (Light weight etc.) 


f)      Modeling and Analysis
  • Appropriate Modelling tools and soft ware for elastic, inelastic design for different systems and elements 

 
g)      Structural Irregularities
  • Should structural system transfer be allowed in tall buildings? If yes what are the limitations to be observed? 
  • Soft storey, Weak Storey 
  • How to deal with torsional irregularity? How much max  modal mass may be excited in torsional modes of vibration? 

h)        Wind Design
  •  When should Wind Tunnel Testing be carried out? 
  • What are the wind tunnel  tests that should be carried out and to what effect?  How to account for future buildings in the neighborhood in the layout and configurtion of adjacent buildings in the wind tunnel? 
  • What are the results to be asked from the WT testing agency? 
  • Appropriate Damping Values 
  • Discussion on Wind Dampers- When to use them, What type to use for what building application? 
  • Should there be instrumentation on tall buildings for measurement of vibrations/accelerations?   

 
i)        Earthquake Analysis and Design
  • Does the current IS 1893 assure acceptable performance of tall buildings? 
  • Seismic hazard characterization (base shear, response spectrum, ground motion histories, near-source effects, fault maps, fault classification w.r.t. earthquake potential characterization). 
  • Site soil characterization. 
  • Closely spaced modes-How critical is this issue?   
  •   Linear static analysis procedure. 
  •  Dynamic response spectrum procedure.  What should the spectrum look like?  When should a site-specific spectrum be required?  How to account for near-source effects (applies to linear static procedure as well)? 
  • When should one do non-linear analysis? What are the earthquake ground motions to be considered in Indian scenario?  
  •  How to properly account for P-Delta effects (modeling gravity columns)?  Do we have software for nonlinear analysis readily available?  Are test data  characterizing component nonlinear (cyclic) behavior using prevailing Indian standards of practice available?  What should the material models look like for various structural components? 
  •  When is a pushover analysis required? 

          
j)        Frame Structure -Ductile detailing criteria:  

  • ·   What criteria and when applicable?  
  • ·   Strong-column weak beam in moment frames 
  • ·    boundary elements in shear walls 
  • ·    tie-spacing 
  • ·    135 degree hooks 
  • ·    lap-splices and development length 
  • ·    location of splices 
  • ·    beam-column joint detailing in concrete frames 
  • ·    continuity of column vertical rebar and beam longitudinal rebar through the joint 
  • ·    link beam detailing (diagonal rebar) 
  • ·    required level of diaphragm attachment on either side of a given length of wall, etc. 
  • ·   When and where is Capacity Design required? 
  •   Column (gravity/lateral) design (include long-term axial shortening of columns due to creep and its effects on beams/floor slabs, etc.); 
  •  Use of composite sections for creep control. 


k) Shear Wall 


  • Wall design (include long-term axial shortening due to creep) 
  •   Link beam design 
  •  Diaphragm design 
l) Energy dissipation devices
  • viscous fluid dampers
  • added stiffness and damping devices

m)       Use of Precast in Tall Building Construction 
  • Should it be permitted? 
  • To be used for which  elements of structure? 
  • Design and detailing of joints? 
  • Behaviour in past earthquakes 
n)        Foundations
a.       Discussion on Piled raft foundations
·   Allowable deformations
·   Pile-raft interaction
·   Analysis of piled rafts 
.   Shoring for Deep Basements   
·   Pile testing for deep piles 
·   Max allowable deformation of piles of piled raft- codal provisions?
·   Deformations in piled raft?
·   Differential settlement between core and perimeter.  Provide a pour strip to minimize such settlement (when to provide).  Additional moments in beams and slab due to such differential settlement.
·   Design methodology and detailing of piles and rafts; lateral shear capacity of piles, vertical load carrying capacity of piles (skin friction vs bearing).
b.      Raft  foundations for tall buildings
c.       Pile foundations for Tall buildings 


 
o)    Facades
  • Stiffness 
  • Isolation;  Designing the façade system to permit movement corresponding to wind and seismic drift limits. 


p)      Tall Building with Podium issues
  • Should tower be connected to Podium?  When? 
  • Should Basement walls be considered in Analysis? 
  •  Any special considerations to cater for large shear transfer in the podium diaphragm from tower? (refer ATC)   
q)      Performance Criteria
  • Serviceability Requirements 
  • What should be the limiting acceleration values for human comfort level in wind design? 
  • What is max drift to be allowed in wind and earthquake?  What can be the sudden spike in interstorey drift due to a soft/weak storey?   
r)      Performance Based (Seismic) Design of Structures
  • When to do this? 
  • How to do it? 
  • Review Procedures .... 
s)      Other Detailing Aspects of Tall Buildings
  •  Detailing of cold joints (Core and floor slab done separately) 
  • Dealing with congestion of steel 
  • Splices/Anchorages 
  • Expansion Joint issues 
  • Seismic joints:  When to use and how to design. 
  • Design of Inclines Columns, Bracings etc.

t)       Construction Issues of Tall Buildings
  • Modular/Lightweight shuttering 
  • Slipform Shuttering 
  • High strength concretes – Issues of microcracking, delayed strength, additives, flyash, silica fumes etc. 
  • High Grade Steel- Inconsistency in yield stress.  
  • Dealing with congestion of steel  in beam-column joints 
  • Vertical Transportation of concrete 
  • Durability of Tall Buildings- How to repair/retrofit? 
  • Concrete grade of columns vs. concrete grade of slabs – How to deal with difference? 
u)       Construction Specifications
  • Materials (including welds, rebar, concrete, structural steel, etc.) 
  • Structural, Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing, Vertical Transportation systems 
  • Site preparation and managementa
     

v)        Green Building Issues 

************
     



     

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S.KANTHIMATHINATHAN
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Joined: 09 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:36 am    Post subject: Welcome to the Econference on Design and Construction of Tal Reply with quote

Design reviews are done in India also.

With kind regards,
S.Kanthimathinathan
Structural Engineering Consultant,




Subject: [E-CONF] Re: Welcome to the Econference on Design and Construction of Tal
From: forum@sefindia.org
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:49:26 +0530
To: econf34289@sefindia.org

           Mr. V.P.Agarwal has raised a very vital issue which is faced by all engineers in private consulting companies in this country.

Due to highly competitive scenario of too many consulting companies vis-a-vis too less job orders carrying little fees, most organisations are working with skeletal strength, least holidays to their employee and bare minimum salaries. Result? Nobody knows whether your colleague or the CAD operator working with you shall come tomorrow.


A dedicated and experienced engineer is required to handle the software for analyzing and designing a multi-storied building with undisturbed attention which most private companies can ill-afford. He is often called for discussions, for solving problems arising in the earlier assignments where constructions have already started or for finalisation of next assignment.So mistakes can occur and may remain undetected. I doubt whether, in such scenarios any second engineer is available for complete checking of directories of his colleague, because his situation is also no better.While reading a Design report of a job in Sharjah, I noticed a declaration that " another engineer has checked the design".Is such practice followed in India?


Dipak Bhattacharya / Delhi.


On 19 November 2012 17:00, ishacon forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
      --auto removed--

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admin
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Paper Presentation? Reply with quote

Hi chinmayr shah
You share your paper at sole discretion of yourself to get comments/ideas from community on subject matter.
regards
Admin
chinmayrshah wrote:
I had a research project about "Stability Aspects of Tall Commercial Buildings in Earthquake and Recent Practices". Is there any provision of presenting such papers in this e-Conference?

Thanks in advance
Chinmay
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Dr. N. Subramanian
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 5434
Location: Gaithersburg, MD, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Welcome to the Econference on Design and Construction of Reply with quote

Dear Er Alok,

Thanks for the interesting questions.

1. As I already informed the book published by IITK in collaboration with Gujarat State Disaster Management Authority, MEASURES TO MITIGATE EFFECTS. OF TERRORIST ATTACKS ON BUILDINGS, which is based on FEMA documents will be useful. It may be downloaded from
www.iitk.ac.in/nicee/IITK-GSDMA/TM01.pdf

2. Ultra-High Performance Concrete and Nanotechnology for High Performance Construction Materials hold greater promise for Tall buildings as well as durable concrete infrastructure buildings. The various papers presented in the three International conf. held at the Univ. of Kassel, Germany may be found in the Univ. of Kassel website. One link is given below:
www.uni-kassel.de/hrz/db4/.../Call_for_Papers_Online.pdf

3. The effects of liquefaction in seismic prone areas, especially for TALL BUILDINGS, have to be considered carefully.  Liquefaction can be indirectly blamed for 85% of the total damage to San Francisco earthquake in 1906. Liquefaction hazard maps should be prepared as is done in Bay area, California, USA. The following show damage due to liquefaction-sorry I could not get any image of tall building.





The damage to buildings will be severe and the repairs will be very expensive.

The magnitude 8.0 earthquake that struck during 1985 in the Mexico City earthquake, amplified seismic shaking, because the downtown of Mexico City mostly lies on the silt and volcanic clay sediments of the bed of the historic Lake Texcoco, which are between seven and thirty-seven meters deep and have a high water content-Above this is a layer of sand and above this is a layer of sand and rock. Damage to structures was worsened by soil liquefaction which caused the loss of foundation support and contributed to dramatic settlement of large buildings.

An interesting document prepared by Bay area Govts. may be found at:
http://www.abag.ca.gov/bayarea/eqmaps/liquefac/Lq_rept.pdf

A Ph.D thesis by Subhamoy Bhattacharya on Pile Instability during Earthquake Liquefaction may be of interest to you.
http://www-civil.eng.ox.ac.uk/people/sb/sbthesis.pdf

Regards,
NS
bsec wrote:
Dear All,

It would be great if following topics are also included in the discussions pertaining to Tall Buildings :

  • Design Strategy (if any) to prevent complete collapse of Building under terror attacks (Post 9/11).  
  • Infusion of any new building material, which we look forward to for achieving newer height of TALL BUILDINGS
  • Importance of Liquefaction Analysis in case of TALL BUILDINGS, particularly in seismic prone areas.


Best Wishes

Alok Bhowmick

From: sunilgurtoo [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:00 AM
To: econf34289@sefindia.org
Subject: [E-CONF] Re: Welcome to the Econference on Design and Construction of Tal




Download Attachments:
~WRD000.jpg

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AandA INDORE
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2010
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:31 am    Post subject: Welcome to the Econference on Design and Construction of Tal Reply with quote

Let us pray our tribute to Late Shri Fazular Khan, who changed the
fundametals for design for Highrise buidings & aftter it, throughout
world Highrise were designed on his Tubular concept
reducing cost to substantial extent.

& who was born & brought up in a country like Bangla Desh and lived
just to age 52 (probably the age when most of us got a good footing in
practise !

On 11/19/12, alpa_sheth <forum@sefindia.org> wrote:
Quote:
Dear All:


Greetings and welcome to the E-conference on Design and Construction of Tall
Buildings in India. As has been mentioned earlier the conference will run
Nov. 19 through Nov 28.


A few pointers on Econference protocol.


* All topics pertaining to Tall Buildings may be discussed and we will  urge
all of you to participate in adding value to a topic with informed and
well-thought out comments so as to maintain the  standard of the Econference
to international quality. We request that you please keep your subject note
or comment on an issue crisp and  topical.


* Any issues which are not core to the technical part of the Econference may
please be discussed on the SpeakOut forum, not in the Econference, please.


* Kindly limit  discussions to   max of two issues pertaining to tall
buildings  in a single mail. The issues should be in different paragraphs.
Also, when differing with another commentator, pl exercise utmost civility
while expressing  your disagreement.


We had suggested some topics for discussion and we had received valuable
input from all of you. We have incorporated your suggestions and produced a
revised list as under. This is not an exhaustive list and other pertinent
technical issues can be added as required.


We have a list of subject experts for the Econference. We will introduce
them along the way. We look forward to some exciting days ahead.....


warm regards,


Alpa Sheth
Prof CVR Murry
Prof Swaminathan Krishnan


Econference Moderators


*********************

           

Topics for Tall Buildings Conference

What do we define as a tall building?

a)      Siting of tall buildings:
i Where are tall buildings allowed/not allowed to be sited?
b)      Geotechnical  Issues
       Soil Testing for Tall Buildings.
       Testing for establishing soil and pile modulus

c)      General Parameters of Tall Buildings
      Geometric Proportioning
      Height and Aspect Ratio
      General Distribution and area of  Vertical  and Lateral load carrying
elements as % of plan area for concrete and steel structures.
      Min required stiffness of building
     Perimeter offset to avoid pounding
d)       Structural Configuration, Structural Systems and their Behaviour
       Selection of Structural system- Preliminary behavior analysis   of
alternative systems
     Discussion of Strucutral Sustems- Frames, Shear Walls, Frame-Shear Walls,
Slab-Column Shear Wall structure, Tube Stucture, Hybrid Structure.....
       Performance of different structural systems;
       What levels of ductility are achievable in the lateral force resisting
systems being constructed in India?  What should the value of R be?
     Hybrid Structural Systems and their behaviour
      Achieving  redundancy and alternative load path

d)      Load Combinations

e)       Use of Masonry partition walls in tall buildings
      Should they be included in  analysis?
      Should they be isolated from structure or not?
      Any special specifications for partition walls of  tall buildings?  (Light
weight etc.)


f)      Modeling and Analysis
     Appropriate Modelling tools and soft ware for elastic, inelastic design for
different systems and elements


g)      Structural Irregularities
     Should structural system transfer be allowed in tall buildings? If yes what
are the limitations to be observed?
     Soft storey, Weak Storey
     How to deal with torsional irregularity? How much max  modal mass may be
excited in torsional modes of vibration?

h)        Wind Design
       When should Wind Tunnel Testing be carried out?
     What are the wind tunnel  tests that should be carried out and to what
effect?  How to account for future buildings in the neighborhood in the
layout and configurtion of adjacent buildings in the wind tunnel?
     What are the results to be asked from the WT testing agency?
     Appropriate Damping Values
     Discussion on Wind Dampers- When to use them, What type to use for what
building application?
     Should there be instrumentation on tall buildings for measurement of
vibrations/accelerations?


i)        Earthquake Analysis and Design
     Does the current IS 1893 assure acceptable performance of tall buildings?
     Seismic hazard characterization (base shear, response spectrum, ground
motion histories, near-source effects, fault maps, fault classification
w.r.t. earthquake potential characterization).
     Site soil characterization.
     Closely spaced modes-How critical is this issue?
       Linear static analysis procedure.
      Dynamic response spectrum procedure.  What should the spectrum look like?
When should a site-specific spectrum be required?  How to account for
near-source effects (applies to linear static procedure as well)?
     When should one do non-linear analysis? What are the earthquake ground
motions to be considered in Indian scenario?
      How to properly account for P-Delta effects (modeling gravity columns)?
Do we have software for nonlinear analysis readily available?  Are test
data  characterizing component nonlinear (cyclic) behavior using prevailing
Indian standards of practice available?  What should the material models
look like for various structural components?
      When is a pushover analysis required?


j)        Frame Structure -Ductile detailing criteria:

     ·   What criteria and when applicable?
     ·   Strong-column weak beam in moment frames
     ·    boundary elements in shear walls
     ·    tie-spacing
     ·    135 degree hooks
     ·    lap-splices and development length
     ·    location of splices
     ·    beam-column joint detailing in concrete frames
     ·    continuity of column vertical rebar and beam longitudinal rebar
through the joint
     ·    link beam detailing (diagonal rebar)
     ·    required level of diaphragm attachment on either side of a given
length of wall, etc.
     ·   When and where is Capacity Design required?
       Column (gravity/lateral) design (include long-term axial shortening of
columns due to creep and its effects on beams/floor slabs, etc.);
      Use of composite sections for creep control.


k) Shear Wall


     Wall design (include long-term axial shortening due to creep)
       Link beam design
      Diaphragm design
l) Energy dissipation devices
     viscous fluid dampers
     added stiffness and damping devices

m)       Use of Precast in Tall Building Construction
     Should it be permitted?
     To be used for which  elements of structure?
     Design and detailing of joints?
     Behaviour in past earthquakes
n)        Foundations
a.       Discussion on Piled raft foundations
·   Allowable deformations
·   Pile-raft interaction
·   Analysis of piled rafts
.   Shoring for Deep Basements
·   Pile testing for deep piles
·   Max allowable deformation of piles of piled raft- codal provisions?
·   Deformations in piled raft?
·   Differential settlement between core and perimeter.  Provide a pour
strip to minimize such settlement (when to provide).  Additional moments in
beams and slab due to such differential settlement.
·   Design methodology and detailing of piles and rafts; lateral shear
capacity of piles, vertical load carrying capacity of piles (skin friction
vs bearing).
b.      Raft  foundations for tall buildings
c.       Pile foundations for Tall buildings



o)    Facades
     Stiffness
     Isolation;  Designing the façade system to permit movement corresponding to
wind and seismic drift limits.


p)      Tall Building with Podium issues
     Should tower be connected to Podium?  When?
     Should Basement walls be considered in Analysis?
      Any special considerations to cater for large shear transfer in the podium
diaphragm from tower? (refer ATC)
q)      Performance Criteria
     Serviceability Requirements
     What should be the limiting acceleration values for human comfort level in
wind design?
     What is max drift to be allowed in wind and earthquake?  What can be the
sudden spike in interstorey drift due to a soft/weak storey?
r)      Performance Based (Seismic) Design of Structures
     When to do this?
     How to do it?
     Review Procedures ....
s)      Other Detailing Aspects of Tall Buildings
      Detailing of cold joints (Core and floor slab done separately)
     Dealing with congestion of steel
     Splices/Anchorages
     Expansion Joint issues
     Seismic joints:  When to use and how to design.
     Design of Inclines Columns, Bracings etc.

t)       Construction Issues of Tall Buildings
     Modular/Lightweight shuttering
     Slipform Shuttering
     High strength concretes – Issues of microcracking, delayed strength,
additives, flyash, silica fumes etc.
     High Grade Steel- Inconsistency in yield stress.
     Dealing with congestion of steel  in beam-column joints
     Vertical Transportation of concrete
     Durability of Tall Buildings- How to repair/retrofit?
     Concrete grade of columns vs. concrete grade of slabs – How to deal with
difference?
u)       Construction Specifications
     Materials (including welds, rebar, concrete, structural steel, etc.)
     Structural, Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing, Vertical Transportation
systems
     Site preparation and managementa
     

v)        Green Building Issues









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Dr. N. Subramanian
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 5434
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Welcome to the Econference on Design and Construction of Reply with quote

Dear Er Ananda,

You may read more details about Er Khan in
http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9335

Best wishes,
NS

AandA INDORE wrote:
Let us pray our tribute to Late Shri Fazular Khan, who changed the
fundametals for design for Highrise buidings & aftter it, throughout
world Highrise were designed on his Tubular concept
reducing cost to substantial extent.

& who was born & brought up in a country like Bangla Desh and lived
just to age 52 (probably the age when most of us got a good footing in
practise !

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