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How to optimise tall buildings for wind
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sureshkumar_kumaresan
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Joined: 19 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: How to optimise tall buildings for wind Reply with quote

Hello all,

I wanted to initiate the discussion on how do we optimise tall buildings for wind considering wind being the major design force in most of the tall buildings. I would like to say that planform gometry can play a huge role in the optimisation procedure before one would look into the structural aspects.

However, in India, I have seen we seldom get the opportunity to discuss about the geometry at all. Most of the time the geometry is fixed by the architect and then the building goes into a wind tunnel study mode. But then we have the only option of fixing the issues only structurally which is quite a task for the structural engineer. So structural fix means more concrete (for stiffening and increasing mass, not always sometime reorienting the frames would do the job) and less space. This way of fixing is not a sustainable way as well.

So in my opinion, when we come with tall/slender buildings, geometry should be given considerable importance and discussion should take place with experts with regard to a good overall shape as far as wind is concerned not to attract too much load from wind.

Your views and comments/questions are welcome on this topic.

Thanks
Suresh
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thirumalaichettiar
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In response to the above posting I am to inform that you are a Doctorate (specialist) in Wind engg studied in Canada. Is it correct or I am wrong?

Sir,

You have published many articles but one among them is

1. HIGH RISE BUILDING BOOM IN INDIA: A WIND CONSULTANT'S PERSPECTIVE  which appeared in the Proceedings of the NWHRB held at Hyderabad during April 25 & 26 .



Is it possible to post it for the benefit of all of the Sefians.

T.RangaRajan.
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sureshkumar_kumaresan
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: How to optimise tall buildings for wind Reply with quote

Thanks for recognizing me. We might have seen at that time. The paper is attached for your reference.

Thanks
Suresh



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thirumalaichettiar
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Dr.Suresh Kumar/Sir,

Thanks for attaching the article for the sake of others.

I have got a copy of the seminar proceedings and read your article and I have not attended the same and hence I have no change to see you but like to meet you if God permits.

T.RangaRajan.
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bijay sarkar
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sir,

What i learn from available documents, "Burz Khalifa" is Oriented and Shaped in plane & also in vertical direction to have a minimal impact of wind based on latest technology of wind engineering and shape is selected after several wind tunnel tests with "Complete model" as well as for "During Construction" models to confuse the winds in vortex creation. Even the erection cranes was located in the model as planned. Can you shed some details about the wind tunnel tests and how orientation & shapes in all directions are determined from those tests.


with regards,

bijay sarkar
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sureshkumar_kumaresan
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: How to optimise tall buildings for wind Reply with quote

Dear Mr. Sarkar,

What you said in case of Burj Khalifa is correct. For this building, few WT tests were carried out to optimise orientation as well as geometry and as a result, the wind-induced response were significantly reduced. But all buildings won't go through such rigourous exercise for obvious reasons.

(1) Orientation can be key consideration for decreasing the wind-induced response. However, many times, this is difficult to do since the site plan typically dictates the orientation of the building with a particular shape. In cities with space constraints, orientation may not be a choice.

Let me brief how orientation will help in reducing wind-induced response. For any city, wind speed with a particular risk level is not constant from wind directions. We can capitalize on this by orienting the weakest axis away from predominant strong wind directions.

(2) Geometry can be another key consideration for decreasing the wind-induced response. However, most of the time the geometry has been frozen by the time the building comes for wind tunnel testing for various reasons.

See typically buildings are bluff bodies in comparison to streamlined aircraft structures. Due to buildings bluff shape, the drag and lift (across-wind) loads are higher in bluff structures. So more streamlined geometrical shapes such as round, elliptical, polygonal shapes more than six sides, square/rectangle shapes with edge treatments such as rounded, champhered, stepped can noticeably reduce wind-induced responses on structures.

Suresh
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Dr. N. Subramanian
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

The following papers, which are mathematically involved, explain the Optimization of tall buildings for wind loads

Warsido et al, Dynamic optimization for the wind-induced response of a tall building
http://www.iawe.org/Proceedings/11ACWE/11ACWE-Warsido.pdf
Chan et al Integrated wind load analysis and stiffness optimization of tall buildings with
3D modes
http://ikb.edu.pl/jacek.wdowicki/BWW/1-tematy/budynki/1-sciany-wymiar/residential%2040-storey%20building/Cha10.pdf
Aly A.M. et al Tall Buildings Under Multidirectional Winds:
Response Prediction and Reduction
http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/16677/InTech-Tall_buildings_under_multidirectional_winds_response_prediction_and_reduction.pdf


Best wishes,
NS
bijay sarkar wrote:
Dear Sir,

What i learn from available documents, "Burz Khalifa" is Oriented and Shaped in plane & also in vertical direction to have a minimal impact of wind based on latest technology of wind engineering and shape is selected after several wind tunnel tests with "Complete model" as well as for "During Construction" models to confuse the winds in vortex creation. Even the erection cranes was located in the model as planned. Can you shed some details about the wind tunnel tests and how orientation & shapes in all directions are determined from those tests.


with regards,

bijay sarkar
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B.V.Harsoda
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paper:-

A lead shear damper suitable for reducing the motion induced by wind and earthquakes
http://www.iitk.ac.in/nicee/wcee/article/11_271.PDF

Earthquake Resistance of Multistory Building Structures Designed for Wind
http://www.iitk.ac.in/nicee/wcee/article/8_vol4_607.pdf

Regards,
Er. B. V. Harsoda
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SameerDhuri
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Joined: 01 May 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:49 am    Post subject: Query about Wind Turbines Installed in Buil Reply with quote

Dear Dr.Suresh Kumar/Sir and Other Senior Sefians,
                                        Can you please enlighten me on :-
1.How should one approach design of Building Mounted / Integrated Wind Turbines(High Rise with Wind Turbines) for example the Bahrain World Trade Center and Pearl River Tower
in Guangzhou, China?  
2. How will the Vibration caused due to Turbines hamper the Structural Stability & prevention of the same?
3.How feasible will it be for Indian Scenario with respect to Green Building (LEED) Advantage that it would get in long term due to Energy savings?

Best Regards,
Sameer Dhuri



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sureshkumar_kumaresan
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:14 am    Post subject: How to ptimise tall buildings for wind Reply with quote

Dear Sameer,

Thanks for your interest.
(1) See in those specific cases, they did study about the general wind speed scenario in the region as well as the created venturi effect on the turbines. In general even if the mean wind speed is lower in the region, due to the venturi effect sufficient wind speed will be generated between the buildings which will generate wind energy. Note that the turbine has to be oriented towards the predominant wind direction as well and this will dictate a specific orientation for the building. The expected wind power calculation versus the requirement and the costing has to be worked out earlier to evaluate the feasibility of such a system.

(2) I would expect the reverse. Buildings can give trouble to the turbine in the form of wake buffeting. Well, vibration of connecting elements is a possibility. One another issue could be noise and it effects on the people staying close.

(3) This is difficult to answer. Wind energy is a clean one but one has to look at the feasibility with regard to potential wind power generation, associated expenses and how quickly we can get a break-even.

Hope this helps.

Suresh
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