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VPandya General Sponsor
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 842
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:01 pm Post subject: Quality Assurance. Peer-Review of Structural Design. |
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Dear Sefian's,
In Bhuj Earthquake of Gujarat 2001 in Ahmedabad alone (Far from Epicenter), 800 people died and 300 Structures failed. In one building in Ahmedabad , Manshi Tower 95 people died. I think it is high time that we follow procedures of some cities in USA like Boston, San Francisco and Chicago, which require PEER-REVIEW of Design and Drawings before Construction Permit is issued. Why not in India, cities like Ahmedabad, Delhi and others in high earthquake zone require PEER-REVIEW? This is a Public-Safety issue.
Note: If big cities like Ahmedabad and Delhi already require Peer-Review before issuing Construction Permit, that is a welcome news.
I think PEER-REVIEW will help to minimize risks associated with Major - Structures. A good and most current document on Peer-Review is from CASE (Council of American Structural Engineers). I am giving here the web-link of same document.
https://netforum.acec.org/eweb/DynamicPage.aspx?Site=acec_store&WebCode=ACECproductDetail&prc_prd_key=0db23555-ef99-49d7-8f41-84ded318a4c6
Regards.
Vasudeo Pandya P.E. ; S.E.
Structural Engineer
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VPandya General Sponsor
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 842
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:32 pm Post subject: PEER-REVIEW and New Zealand Earthquake report. |
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Dear Sefia'ns,
From ASCE News Brief. Read this article and you will find that what a serious responsibility our City Municipal Corporation like Ahmedabad , Delhi and others cities have when they issue BUILDING PERMIT FOR CONSTRUCTION. I think PEER-REVIEW Of Structural Design and Drawings is very important. These cities in high earthquake zone must enforce PEER-REVIEW before issuing a Construction Permit. In this article City Municipal Corporations
are held responsible for loss of life in this eartquake event. Can we say same for our big cities Municipal Corporations?
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> From: asce@smartbrief.com
> Subject: Engineering design "deficient;" blamed for building collapse in New Zealand quake
> ASCE SmartBrief
> December 11, 2012
Web-Link:
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/chch-city-council-blame-killer-ctv-building-collapse-maurice-williamson-bc-133769 <o></o>
Regards.
Vasudeo Pandya P.E. ; S.E.
Structural Engineer |
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VPandya General Sponsor
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 842
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Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:06 am Post subject: 26 Story Building, Las Vegas to be dismantle.Unsafe in EQ. |
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Dear Sefian's,
India’s NDMA , GSDMA and our big cities Municipal Corporations (Building Permit Authorities) should read this current, 12/4/2014 Los-Angles Times article. If the High-Rise building (49 stories)which is more than 26 floors complete is UNSAFE IN EARTHQUAKE, that building under construction, need to be dismantled floor by floor. I hope we in India become as tough as Las Vegas, USA Municipal corporation.
FromLos Angeles Times April 12th,2014:
On Las Vegas Strip,the Harmon tower set to fall-- with a whimper.
Never opened, the half-built husk sits empty,shrink-wrapped in ads, kept intact as evidence in a high-stakes trial this fall to determine who's responsible for the major design and construction defects experts say could topple the building in a major earthquake.
The building was once intended to be the 49-floor center piece of the $8.5-billion City Center, the largest private commercial development in U.S. history.
Clark County District Judge Elizabeth Gonzalezhas ordered that after opposing lawyers collect what ever evidence they can, the ill-fated project will be demolished. This time, the bitter end won't come in ablaze of smoke and glory, but hidden from the gaze of curious eyes — a mistake the city wants to quickly forget.
The move set off a volley of lawsuits between design engineers and contractors to determine how such a supposed jewel could become a civic safety hazard. Calling the Harmona "monument of construction defects," City Center officials insisted the building should be destroyed, reasoning that the tower could collapse in a strong earthquake — and predicted a 50% chance of such a temblor within 30 years.
Lesson Learned From this:
How very expensive, Architects/Str.Engineers/Construction people mistakes can become.Think of this.Dismantling this building (26 floor completed out of total 49 floors),floor by floor because this building will TOPPLE in a Design Earthquake Load.
Web-Link for full story:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-harmon-demolition-20140413,0,7940243.story#ixzz2yywwVUMx
Regards.
Vasudeo Pandya P.E.;S.E.
Structural Engineer
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balki16 ...
Joined: 04 Nov 2012 Posts: 111
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Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Dear Sir
In the Bhuj Earth Quake practically no building construed by Central Public Works Department (CPWD) has failed (except a couple of single story load bearing masonry structures ). This is because CPWD has a strong design base which even the best Architects lack in this country. Most of the Architects do not give importance to the the structural system. In residential building most of them prefer 9" wide columns so that they will be flush with the walls. Beams are not permitted to cross beams. Most of them do not carry out ductile detailing of columns. All this give rise to improper load path and result in failure. Most victims are low rise residential buildings which are handled by mediocre structural engineers. God forbid, if there is earth quake of magnitude 7 or above in Delhi it will have catastrophic effects. Same is the case with North Eastern states.
We are a fatalistic nation who feel " It something has to be happen it will happen"
Regards
K. B. |
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abhy_vivek Silver Sponsor
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 690
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Agreed, that the accurate / Innovative designs and Design review is needed. But only that is not sufficient. Ensuring the 'correct' translation of design into GFC drawings and further correct implementation of drawings during Construction stage is also very important. And most of the times error creeps in during interpreting the drawings / specs at execution stage itself.
PMC, QAQC lacks in India to a great extent. Hence during construction, clients ask many funny funny questions, impose imaginary requirements. Educating site engineers about design and designer about site activities is prime important.
Regards
Vivek Abhyankar
Mumbai
balki16 wrote: | Dear Sir
In the Bhuj Earth Quake practically no building construed by Central Public Works Department (CPWD) has failed (except a couple of single story load bearing masonry structures ). This is because CPWD has a strong design base which even the best Architects . . .
Regards
K. B. |
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VPandya General Sponsor
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 842
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:53 pm Post subject: We need a RESIDENT ENGINEER ON SITE and ASCE Manual. |
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Dear Er. Vivek Abhyankerji,
I agree. In USA we require a RESIDENT ENGINEER on construction site who is from the same Structural Consulting Company who designed the project. This RESIDENT ENGINEER is on site and helps GENERAL CONTRACTOR to interpret his companies final Structural Drawings. He is the only contact person on site for answering questions on or interpreting final Issued For Construction Drawings. If he does not have the answers he gets them from his consulting company.
Also in USA we rely heavily on this ASCE document. For Engineers like me this document spells out 95% of the things I need to deliver a quality project. This document is not that expensive.
ASCE’S Quality in the Constructed Project, Third Edition
A Guide for Owners, Designers, and Constructors
Construction Institute
Manuals of Practice (MOP) MOP 73
2012 / 302 pp.
Description
Sponsored by the Construction Quality Management and Inspection Committee of the Owners Directorate of the Construction Institute of ASCE.
Quality in the Constructed Project: A Guide for Owners, Designers, and Constructors, third edition, provides information and recommendations on principles and procedures that are effectivein enhancing the quality of constructed projects. The guide—a complete updateof the previous edition—discusses the roles, responsibilities, requirements,and limits of authority of participants in the design and construction process,highlighting concepts and practices that are valuable to each in achieving project goals and objectives. This Manual of Practice presents several key themes, including the value of clearly defining and assigning responsibilities,the importance of teamwork, the need for clear contractual provisions,strategies for good communication, the owner's selection process for other team members, the potential benefits associated with various project delivery systems, and procedures for managing design and construction. Although this guide is written primarily with traditional design-bid-build (DBB) projects in mind, it also highlights areas in which alternative forms of project delivery,such as design-build, may shift project responsibilities and risk to different participants.
Chapters include:
.owner's role and requirements;
- project delivery systems;
- project team;
- coordination and communication;
- selecting the design professional;
- agreement for professional services;
- alternative studies and project impacts;
- planning and managing design;
- design discipline coordination;
- guidelines for design activities;
- pre contract planning for construction;
- construction team;
- procedures for selecting the constructor;
- construction contract;
- planning and managing construction;
- construction contract documentation andsubmittals;
- construction contract administration;
- operation and maintenance;
- quality assurance and quality control;
- computer technology and project delivery;
- peer review;
- risk, liability, and avoiding conflict;
- partnering; and
- value engineering.
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MOP 73 will be useful to owners, design professionals, and constructors interested in enhancing the quality of constructed projects.
- Regards.
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- Vasudeo Pandya P.E. ; S.E.
- Structural Engineer
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abhy_vivek Silver Sponsor
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 690
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Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: Re: We need a RESIDENT ENGINEER ON SITE and ASCE Manual. |
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Resp. Shri. Vasudeo Pandya ji,
Thank you very much for educative posts which also reflect your past filed experience.
In olden days the representative of Architect / Consultant who used to visit the sites and ensure quality or be stationed permanently at site till completion of construction was called as 'Clerk of Work', he used to evaluate the quality, certify, make the payment etc. Eventually the role started getting tarnished because of presence of 'duty to pay subcontractor' !!
Anyway, in US and UK a PE / C.Eng examination is mandatory. Without that one can not practice in field (or even if practices then do not get any responsibility / handsome job / salary / status etc.). The structure of PE / CEng exams are so designed that the one who passes through it becomes 'Complete Engineer' (not just a Structural or Civil Engineer). Basically these exams give due respect to 'Application of Engineering Principles in daily life' and are designed accordingly. Candidate have to strive hard to get through. C.Eng has interviews, written test and intermediate level projects. Also PE from one locality may not be applicable in all states !!
In India the C.Eng is viewed so casually that there is no evaluation criteria as such (expect completion of 35yrs of age and 10yrs of practice) probably it is assumed that as the age of engineer increases he gets wiser and wiser .
Here LEt's all Jointly propose that the 'Institute of Engineer-India' should conduct written test and interview before giving C.Engg certification. All the privately practicing individual engineering bodies be merged into one and only one single institute all over India be available.
With Warm Regards
Vivek Abhyankar
Structural Engineer
Mumbai
VPandya wrote: | Dear Er. Vivek Abhyankerji,
I agree. In USA we require a RESIDENT ENGINEER on construction site who is from the same Structural Consulting Company who designed the project. This RESIDENT ENGINEER is on site and helps GENERAL CONTRACTOR to interpret his companies final Structural . .
Regards.
Vasudeo Pandya P.E. ; S.E.
Structural Engineer |
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VPandya General Sponsor
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 842
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:36 am Post subject: "raise the bar" of qualifications to practice stru |
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Dear Er. Vivek Abhyankerji,
I agree. All the institutions like Institution Of Engineers India should get together and come with a plan to "raise the bar" of qualifications to practice structural Engineering. A written P.E. and/or S.E. exam after 5 years of experience as required in USA is a good start. This is done to improve PUBLIC-SAFETY and for no other reason. May be this Public-Safety can be achieved by some other method but something need to be done. Take a look at this comment. Ours is a very risky profession compared to other professions, according to John A. Schmidt a very experience Structural Engineer from USA.
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From a Paper "Structural Engineering" By John A. Schmidt P.E. SECB. Of USA.
Emerging Issues in Structural Engineering:
Structural engineers have a uniquely significant responsibility for protecting the public relative to the other design disciplines. Architectural, mechanical, and electrical system failures usually result in unattractiveness, poor functionality, discomfort and/or inconvenience. A structural system failure almost always has more serious consequences, even in the best cases, there are often substantial costs associated with correcting what is or could become a life-threatening situation. As a result, professional liability insurance rates for structural engineers have been increasing, leading to the creation of the Risk Management Program (RMP). In addition,efforts are underway to establish board certification at the national level and expand separate licensure at the state level to "raise the bar" of qualifications to practice structural engineering.
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Regards.
Vasudeo Pandya P.E. ; S.E.
Structural Engineer
Last edited by VPandya on Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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abhy_vivek Silver Sponsor
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 690
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 4:30 am Post subject: Re: "raise the bar" of qualifications to practice |
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1) In olden days people were curious about the 'Engineers' and their life. Till 50 yrs back While marrying a girl parents used to search hard to get a 'Doctor' or 'Engineer' or a 'Lawyer'. But now the engineering profession (at least Civil) is almost has got rubbed out of this list. Because the engineer is rapidly getting diluted in India and losing its glory.
2) Many times we see that the students who were Scholars in Civil / Structural Engg and ranked top in college days often switch over the profession - say to IT, Finance, Business administration etc. Such cross platform switchover should be allowed but we should not forget to ask a question that after the scholars switch over "who takes their place then?"
3) The college exams certifies our 'Academic knowledge' whereas the professional exam certifies our 'Professional skills'
By and large, now a days instead of Reading books - handling complex Design-Construction projects - developing knowledge banks - mostly engineers are found at Face Book, Linked-In, Whats app, twitter etc.
VPandya wrote: | Dear Er. Vivek Abhyankerji,
I agree. All the institutions like Institution Of Engineers India should . . .
Regards.
Vasudeo Pandya P.E. ; S.E.
Structural Engineer |
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vegad ...
Joined: 25 Dec 2013 Posts: 138
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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:55 am Post subject: Another Perspective |
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Raising the bar of the product quality is more important than that of the service provider.
Service providers will automatically provide better deliverables, once rejected. India is most competitive in this aspect.
Unfortunately, the product quality in India is only gauged by the 3d views, the landscape planters, the parking space and glossy finishes!!
When there are no buyers of design (average or better is not the question), who will buy the peer review report?
The uneducated (but literate) developers want only drawings complying with architectural requirements for their masons to shape the structure.
They do not need the drawings complying with the codal requirements as they do not face engineers in the approval office checking the calculations, commenting etc.
Developers are busy squeezing the costs and no authority is controlling the safety of their products.
Engineers willing to provide compliant product are not only not paid for the time and effort spent on the product, but the product also gets rejected as it is compared to non-compliant, cheaper, temporarily stable products.
There are enough good engineers and good peer reviewers, but only their service is not required, hence even they are not required.
It seems obvious that civil engineering may not have much value as civil safety and performance of public infrastructure is least priority of the legislation and bureaucracy. The profession can be easily revived and every engineer can get reasonable works and payments if the profession is put as design and eng. dept. at the municipal wards. But, no such department is ever expected to pop up there.
Profession has failed in this, in India, on academic and professional basis (no certificates are respected by the customer). And added to that majority of practicing engineers provide stability certificate without required protocols and procedure for it.
Solving the problem from bottom to top is a useless approach. Currently institutions are following this course; certifications, tests, workshops.
Its like making a national silent play for blind citizens (or citizens kept in dark).
Poor regulation may be compared to negligence ter*orism, in which a poorly built concrete (b*mb)structure collapses (automatically or due to seismic) and planters of these b*mbs (the careless developers and designers) have escaped years earlier before the event. And the technical police allowed them to do so in complete awareness of the problem.
Those structures which performed well during earthquake were not necessarily designed by a multiple certified engineers, but just those who were able to stick to basics and sell the same as it is to good customers.
Thank you. |
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