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consultancy fee structure
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basant_kukreti
SEFI Regulars
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Joined: 25 Jun 2011
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:56 am    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Dear Sir: May I have a standard format for structural Design  consultancy for a rational approach in respect of stage payment Detailson the basis of cost of building .Where cost of building is clearly defined will this include plumbing and other services also.
Regards
Basant Kishore Kukreti
Regards

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 12:01 PM, srinivasan_vasudevan <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear all When quoting the consultancy fees on sft basis , one has to be careful as to what is the area for consideration Some builders do not pay for basement areas and parking , ramps etc., as they do not fetch revenue !!!When designing buildings with double or triple basements, where deep excavtion protection systems needs to be considered as part of structural designs , costs to be included in sft cost It is surprising and indeed stupid for structural engineers to be told , there is no fee consideration for the most challenging part of building deisgn !!Vasudevan Consulting engineer Bangalore RegardsTSVcruthi consultants consortium Pvt.LtdrajajinagarBanglore
From:  "abubaker_ka"
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:21:24 +0530
To:
ReplyTo:  general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure

     Dear Viren I fully agree with Mr. Jayant, regarding the fee structure for structural Engineers. But generally there is a common practice in our place. For structural design and detailing one can charge 0.5% of the cost of construction . The cost of construction in our place comes to Rs.1000/sq.ft. for the structural part.That is, the structural consultancy rate /sq.ft is Rs.5.00. This will end up in Rs.4/sq.ft. Or even less at the time of closing the account unless the designer is careful in issuing drawings. According to me the reasonable rate for structural design is 1% of the cost of structure.( Rs.10.00/ sq.ft). Then only one can do good quality work. If the architectural and structural designs are done together, 2.5% of cost of construction or Rs.40/ sq.ft can be charged. This excludes any interior work or site supervision. With warm regards Prof.Dr.K.A.AbuBaker Sent from my iPad On 19 Jan 2013, at 19:21, "jlakhlani" wrote:
Quote:
           Dear Viren Unfortunately, no consensus is prevailing among structural engineering fraternity in India regarding fee structure. So, whatever you quote, there shall be someone ready to work at fees lower than that. I am sorry but this is not to dishearten you or any young engineer. On the contrary, I want to highlight a very important point which is rarely discussed while deciding the fees. Above mentioned scenario exists because there is no system to verify quality of services, in form of peer review of design, or standard benchmark for content and level of detailing in the drawings. Due to this, consultants working at lower rates have no option but to resort to corner cutting in their services. In a way, this is a very good situation for young engineers who really want to do good work. Because you take any city of India and you will find majority of the consultants following the same practice - lower fees and lesser services. So, if you raise the bar and provide superior quality of services, your competition shall be within that minority of consultants who are doing good work. And from my own experience, I can assure you that it pays a lot to be in that minority. While discussing the fees with your prospective clients, highlight the level of services that he can get from no one but you. And clients are always ready to pay, we have to learn how to get it from them. Regards. Jayant Lakhlani For Lakhlani Associates www.lakhlani.com       --auto removed--       --
     



     






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naga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:01 am    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

I request all the SE should charge Rs.4 to 6/- per sft.and should give full service.Don't degrade our quality for less fee & service.Every one should have some bench mark service.

V.N MALLESWARA RAO



From: "jlakhlani" <forum@sefindia.org>
Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:22:05
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] consultancy fee structure
           Dear Viren

Unfortunately, no consensus is prevailing among structural engineering fraternity in India regarding fee structure. So, whatever you quote, there shall be someone ready to work at fees lower than that. I am sorry but this is not to dishearten you or any young engineer. On the contrary, I want to highlight a very important point which is rarely discussed while deciding the fees.

Above mentioned scenario exists because there is no system to verify quality of services, in form of peer review of design, or standard benchmark for content and level of detailing in the drawings. Due to this, consultants working at lower rates have no option but to resort to corner cutting in their services.

In a way, this is a very good situation for young engineers who really want to do good work. Because you take any city of India and you will find majority of the consultants following the same practice - lower fees and lesser services. So, if you raise the bar and provide superior quality of services, your competition shall be within that minority of consultants who are doing good work.

And from my own experience, I can assure you that it pays a lot to be in that minority. While discussing the fees with your prospective clients, highlight the level of services that he can get from no one but you. And clients are always ready to pay, we have to learn how to get it from them.

Regards.

Jayant Lakhlani
For
Lakhlani Associates
www.lakhlani.com
      --auto removed--

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gautam chattopadhyay
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Posts: 128

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Mr. Barua, in architecture and building consultancy fees are charged per sft of the floor areas. Ground to roof are added together
to compute the total fllor ares and foundation design cost is added to it. It is very common practice. In bridges also we prepare the preliminary fees on area of the deck. Rs 45000 per sqm is the basis and 2% of this cost should be consultant's fees.

I feel your apathy of accepting our exact position in the industry. You have asked whether we are drawing suppliers? while subscribing to your anguish and deceit I must admit that we trade drawings and specifications. Geotech consultants trade test reports. There is no shame in admitting these facts. I remember the license issued to Development Consultants Pvt. Ltd. of Calcutta was that of a shop and DCPL used to run according to shops and establishments act.

We have to maintain our dignity at proper forum at proper time. We basically supply drawings generated off our knowledge, specifications off our knowledge and experience and man power in project management consultancy. Such activities do not degrade us. We shall be degraded or downgraded if we compromise with accepted national and international standards.  

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 1:29 PM, ibarua <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
[quote]            21st Jan 2013

I'm surprised that you are talking about charging consultancy fees in terms of rupees per sq.ft. Are we drawing supply contractors?

The fee has to be a percentage of the cost of the project.

For comprehensive services (architectural, structural, etc.), the Council of Architecture (the statutory body regulating the architectural profession) has prescribed certain minimum fees -- as percentage of the value of the work. The practice in the architectural profession is to charge fees as a percentage of the cost of the work -- at least in this backward part of the country where I live and work.

Indrajit Barua.

From: srinivasan_vasudevan
Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:02:58
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure
           Dear all When quoting the consultancy fees on sft basis , one has to be careful as to what is the area for consideration Some builders do not pay for basement areas and parking , ramps etc., as they do not fetch revenue !!!When designing buildings with double or triple basements, where deep excavtion protection systems needs to be considered as part of structural designs , costs to be included in sft cost It is surprising and indeed stupid for structural engineers to be told , there is no fee consideration for the most challenging part of building deisgn !!Vasudevan Consulting engineer Bangalore RegardsTSVcruthi consultants consortium Pvt.LtdrajajinagarBanglore
From: "abubaker_ka"
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:21:24 +0530
To:
ReplyTo: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure

     Dear Viren I fully agree with Mr. Jayant, regarding the fee structure for structural Engineers. But generally there is a common practice in our place. For structural design and detailing one can charge 0.5% of the cost of construction . The cost of construction in our place comes to Rs.1000/sq.ft. for the structural part.That is, the structural consultancy rate /sq.ft is Rs.5.00. This will end up in Rs.4/sq.ft. Or even less at the time of closing the account unless the designer is careful in issuing drawings. According to me the reasonable rate for structural design is 1% of the cost of structure.( Rs.10.00/ sq.ft). Then only one can do good quality work. If the architectural and structural designs are done together, 2.5% of cost of construction or Rs.40/ sq.ft can be charged. This excludes any interior work or site supervision. With warm regards Prof.Dr.K.A.AbuBaker Sent from my iPad On 19 Jan 2013, at 19:21, "jlakhlani" wrote:         --auto removed--

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SANGEETA WIJ
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Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:16 am    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Dr Abubaker has listed a preferred or a very theoretical figure and is on every Consultant’s wish-list; in the real life you may get shockers as structural consultants sometimes quote as low as 50 paise per sq feet!
In fact I would be happy to get 1. To 1.5 % of structural cost as fees and even 4-6/- per sq feet for structures would make my day, for a Project of roughly 10 lakh sq feet or more; for smaller configurations or floors or villas, one must charge a lumpsum after evaluating your own costing based on design engineer’s and draftsman’s time, stationery, printing, computer and software cost, office executive support and rent, meetings’ time
Regards
Sangeeta Wij etc….

From: abubaker_ka [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: 20 January 2013 11:21
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure



Dear Viren
I fully agree with Mr. Jayant, regarding the fee structure for structural Engineers. But generally there is a common practice in our place. For structural design and detailing one can charge 0.5% of the cost of construction . The cost of construction in our place comes to Rs.1000/sq.ft. for the structural part.That is, the structural consultancy rate /sq.ft is Rs.5.00. This will end up in Rs.4/sq.ft. Or even less at the time of closing the account unless the designer is careful in issuing drawings. According to me the reasonable rate for structural design is 1% of the cost of structure.( Rs.10.00/ sq.ft). Then only one can do good quality work.
If the architectural and structural designs are done together, 2.5% of cost of construction or Rs.40/ sq.ft can be charged. This excludes any interior work or site supervision.



With warm regards

Prof.Dr.K.A.AbuBaker


Sent from my iPad





On 19 Jan 2013, at 19:21, "jlakhlani" forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:


Quote:
Dear Viren

Unfortunately, no consensus is prevailing among structural engineering fraternity in India regarding fee structure. So, whatever you quote, there shall be someone ready to work at fees lower than that. I am sorry but this is not to dishearten you or any young engineer. On the contrary, I want to highlight a very important point which is rarely discussed while deciding the fees.

Above mentioned scenario exists because there is no system to verify quality of services, in form of peer review of design, or standard benchmark for content and level of detailing in the drawings. Due to this, consultants working at lower rates have no option but to resort to corner cutting in their services.

In a way, this is a very good situation for young engineers who really want to do good work. Because you take any city of India and you will find majority of the consultants following the same practice - lower fees and lesser services. So, if you raise the bar and provide superior quality of services, your competition shall be within that minority of consultants who are doing good work.

And from my own experience, I can assure you that it pays a lot to be in that minority. While discussing the fees with your prospective clients, highlight the level of services that he can get from no one but you. And clients are always ready to pay, we have to learn how to get it from them.

Regards.

Jayant Lakhlani
For
Lakhlani Associates
www.lakhlani.com
--auto removed--







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ajayk
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Joined: 03 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Agree with Sangeetha.
 
More so when the construction is multi-storied. I really do not believe the client/architect would pay us the same value for typical floors. Arguments could be on the lines that they are all typical with minor modifications, if any, and hence the realistic sft on which has to charge is much smaller than the sft of construction. 
 
Hence, getting a 4-5 rs/sft is a dreamer for a structural engineering-alone firm. Typically, quote is based mostly on the man-hour basis for core engineering and ofcourse admin and asset overheads.
 
Big companies by virtue of the reputation tend to charge more as they generally have heavy overheads. Smaller companies typically are in a fix, a 2 rs/sft is generally the best. During recession (2010), the charges were as low as 0.5 rs/sft (peanuts, true). Since then, market has improved but on the importance aspect for structural engineers considering the complete supply chain from concept to commissioning, structural engrs are paid v low (probably MEP are paid lowest). It is a bit ironical considering the importance of structural engrs in the whole supply chain.
 
The natural solution is to expand the company to include architectural (and MEP) in which case, the quote can suddenly jump upto even 7-8 rs/sft, which is reasonably handsome and provide decent returns on projects.
 
Building industry is highly fragmented one and the market pulls you down to quote so low. Coz concepts like niche etc may not work for a routine small firm and the best way to quote is to quote less. This prolly explaing why structural engrs r paid less as well (lets say as compared to architects).
 
Hope it helps.
 
Regards


 
On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 1:33 PM, SANGEETA WIJ <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
[quote]  Dr Abubaker has listed a preferred or a very theoretical figure and is on every Consultant’s wish-list; in the real life you may get shockers as structural consultants sometimes quote as low as 50 paise per sq feet!
In fact I would be happy to get 1. To 1.5 % of structural cost as fees and even 4-6/- per sq feet for structures would make my day, for a Project of roughly 10 lakh sq feet or more; for smaller configurations or floors or villas, one must charge a lumpsum after evaluating your own costing based on design engineer’s and draftsman’s time, stationery, printing, computer and software cost, office executive support and rent, meetings’ time
Regards
Sangeeta Wij etc….

From: abubaker_ka [mailto:forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)]
Sent: 20 January 2013 11:21
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure




Dear Viren
I fully agree with Mr. Jayant, regarding the fee structure for structural Engineers. But generally there is a common practice in our place. For structural design and detailing one can charge 0.5% of the cost of construction . The cost of construction in our place comes to Rs.1000/sq.ft. for the structural part.That is, the structural consultancy rate /sq.ft is Rs.5.00. This will end up in Rs.4/sq.ft. Or even less at the time of closing the account unless the designer is careful in issuing drawings. According to me the reasonable rate for structural design is 1% of the cost of structure.( Rs.10.00/ sq.ft). Then only one can do good quality work.
If the architectural and structural designs are done together, 2.5% of cost of construction or Rs.40/ sq.ft can be charged. This excludes any interior work or site supervision.



With warm regards

Prof.Dr.K.A.AbuBaker


Sent from my iPad






On 19 Jan 2013, at 19:21, "jlakhlani" forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)))> wrote:


--auto removed--

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nori
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Dear Mr Barua,

I am indeed very happy to read your comments. Congratulations for being frank and forthright.  

I am attaching a scanned message from FIDIC for kind information of all the learned members.
The image is not very clear unless zoomed. I have summed up the main issues  

<![if !supportLists]>1. <![endif]>First of all we engineers, only we are to blame for the sorry state of affairs…
<![if !supportLists]>2. <![endif]>Do good work and tell the world about.  
<![if !supportLists]>3. <![endif]>The compensation for our services has to be valued and performance based and not traded like a commodity. The best trained minds will not choose engineering consultancy if the compensation is not in line with other professions……
Best Regards
V V Nori


From: ibarua [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 1:29 PM
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure



21st Jan 2013

I'm surprised that you are talking about charging consultancy fees in terms of rupees per sq.ft. Are we drawing supply contractors?

The fee has to be a percentage of the cost of the project.

For comprehensive services (architectural, structural, etc.), the Council of Architecture (the statutory body regulating the architectural profession) has prescribed certain minimum fees -- as percentage of the value of the work. The practice in the architectural profession is to charge fees as a percentage of the cost of the work -- at least in this backward part of the country where I live and work.

Indrajit Barua.

From: srinivasan_vasudevan
Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:02:58
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure
Dear all When quoting the consultancy fees on sft basis , one has to be careful as to what is the area for consideration Some builders do not pay for basement areas and parking , ramps etc., as they do not fetch revenue !!!When designing buildings with double or triple basements, where deep excavtion protection systems needs to be considered as part of structural designs , costs to be included in sft cost It is surprising and indeed stupid for structural engineers to be told , there is no fee consideration for the most challenging part of building deisgn !!Vasudevan Consulting engineer Bangalore RegardsTSVcruthi consultants consortium Pvt.LtdrajajinagarBanglore
From: "abubaker_ka"
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:21:24 +0530
To:
ReplyTo: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure

Dear Viren I fully agree with Mr. Jayant, regarding the fee structure for structural Engineers. But generally there is a common practice in our place. For structural design and detailing one can charge 0.5% of the cost of construction . The cost of construction in our place comes to Rs.1000/sq.ft. for the structural part.That is, the structural consultancy rate /sq.ft is Rs.5.00. This will end up in Rs.4/sq.ft. Or even less at the time of closing the account unless the designer is careful in issuing drawings. According to me the reasonable rate for structural design is 1% of the cost of structure.( Rs.10.00/ sq.ft). Then only one can do good quality work. If the architectural and structural designs are done together, 2.5% of cost of construction or Rs.40/ sq.ft can be charged. This excludes any interior work or site supervision. With warm regards Prof.Dr.K.A.AbuBaker Sent from my iPad On 19 Jan 2013, at 19:21, "jlakhlani" wrote:      
--auto removed--

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J R RAJARJAN
SEFI Member
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Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

In general the consultancy fee depends on the cost of the project only. Usually as mentioned in the previous discussions, consultancy fees vary from 0.5% to 1.5% depending on the type of structure. In case of industrial shed buildings where structural contribution i.e., detailing will be more when compared to other consultancy services, under such conditions the structural fee will be more. For conventional buildings like IT parks, airports, office buildings where structural service is one among the other services like architecture, MEP so in such cases the structural fees will be average i.e., less than or equal to 1%.  

In very large projects, predominantly structural fees are claimed in terms of man hours only because if it is a percentage basis then it will be a huge amount. Even if it is percentage basis also more the cost of the project, the percentage will be less and vice versa.

For minor buildings where percentage is not workable i.e., if we can’t achieve the break-even point also then under such circumstances it is better to go for lump sum basis considering all the actual expenses with nominal profit.

Above all, whether structural consultants are considered as professional service providers or drawing suppliers/traders whatever may be but still the fee structure is not standardised because as mentioned in one of the discussions, some personnel are ready to render the service even for Rs.0.50/sft also, it is not happening in any other businesses or services, always there must be a minimum range of fee structures and everyone must work above that only.

Regards,
J R RAJARAJAN

From: gautam chattopadhyay [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: 21 January 2013 15:05
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure



Mr. Barua, in architecture and building consultancy fees are charged per sft of the floor areas. Ground to roof are added together
to compute the total fllor ares and foundation design cost is added to it. It is very common practice. In bridges also we prepare the preliminary fees on area of the deck. Rs 45000 per sqm is the basis and 2% of this cost should be consultant's fees.

I feel your apathy of accepting our exact position in the industry. You have asked whether we are drawing suppliers? while subscribing to your anguish and deceit I must admit that we trade drawings and specifications. Geotech consultants trade test reports. There is no shame in admitting these facts. I remember the license issued to Development Consultants Pvt. Ltd. of Calcutta was that of a shop and DCPL used to run according to shops and establishments act.

We have to maintain our dignity at proper forum at proper time. We basically supply drawings generated off our knowledge, specifications off our knowledge and experience and man power in project management consultancy. Such activities do not degrade us. We shall be degraded or downgraded if we compromise with accepted national and international standards.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 1:29 PM, ibarua forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
Quote:
21st Jan 2013

I'm surprised that you are talking about charging consultancy fees in terms of rupees per sq.ft. Are we drawing supply contractors?

The fee has to be a percentage of the cost of the project.

For comprehensive services (architectural, structural, etc.), the Council of Architecture (the statutory body regulating the architectural profession) has prescribed certain minimum fees -- as percentage of the value of the work. The practice in the architectural profession is to charge fees as a percentage of the cost of the work -- at least in this backward part of the country where I live and work.

Indrajit Barua.

From: srinivasan_vasudevan
Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:02:58
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org) (general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org))
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure
Dear all When quoting the consultancy fees on sft basis , one has to be careful as to what is the area for consideration Some builders do not pay for basement areas and parking , ramps etc., as they do not fetch revenue !!!When designing buildings with double or triple basements, where deep excavtion protection systems needs to be considered as part of structural designs , costs to be included in sft cost It is surprising and indeed stupid for structural engineers to be told , there is no fee consideration for the most challenging part of building deisgn !!Vasudevan Consulting engineer Bangalore RegardsTSVcruthi consultants consortium Pvt.LtdrajajinagarBanglore
From: "abubaker_ka"
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:21:24 +0530
To:
ReplyTo: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org) (general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org))
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure

Dear Viren I fully agree with Mr. Jayant, regarding the fee structure for structural Engineers. But generally there is a common practice in our place. For structural design and detailing one can charge 0.5% of the cost of construction . The cost of construction in our place comes to Rs.1000/sq.ft. for the structural part.That is, the structural consultancy rate /sq.ft is Rs.5.00. This will end up in Rs.4/sq.ft. Or even less at the time of closing the account unless the designer is careful in issuing drawings. According to me the reasonable rate for structural design is 1% of the cost of structure.( Rs.10.00/ sq.ft). Then only one can do good quality work. If the architectural and structural designs are done together, 2.5% of cost of construction or Rs.40/ sq.ft can be charged. This excludes any interior work or site supervision. With warm regards Prof.Dr.K.A.AbuBaker Sent from my iPad On 19 Jan 2013, at 19:21, "jlakhlani" wrote: --auto removed--  





     This Message and its contents is intended solely for the addressee and is proprietary. Information in this mail is for L&T Business Usage only. Any Use to other than the addressee is misuse and infringement to Proprietorship of L&T Construction. If you are not the addressee please return the mail to the sender.
L&T Construction.      


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gautam chattopadhyay
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Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 128

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

to indrajit, sangeeta, Viren

when we charge on basis of floor area + foundation we actually charge on the basis of construction cost only. A tentative amount per floor area is assumed as construction cost say 150 per sft or 1600 per sqm. Now if the fees be ascertained at 2% there is no harm i think. Architecture and structure may then be apportioned within the organisation. Viren and others raised a crucial question once again. this scenario is typical of india since there is no PE system here. anyone can sign a drawing. In USA only PEs and in UK, Australia, New Zealand only chartered engineers are allowed to sign drawings. Hence the rates go higher and quality of design and drawings are maintained. Though late, Institution of Engineers India is thinking of introducing PE system but I know it will change the scenario. Cunning politicians will raise question of democracy and will say there should be equal rights of engineers (LOLS). As u know such jestors are plenty in India.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 3:05 PM, gautam chattopadhyay <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Mr. Barua, in architecture and building consultancy fees are charged per sft of the floor areas. Ground to roof are added together
to compute the total fllor ares and foundation design cost is added to it. It is very common practice. In bridges also we prepare the preliminary fees on area of the deck. Rs 45000 per sqm is the basis and 2% of this cost should be consultant's fees.

I feel your apathy of accepting our exact position in the industry. You have asked whether we are drawing suppliers? while subscribing to your anguish and deceit I must admit that we trade drawings and specifications. Geotech consultants trade test reports. There is no shame in admitting these facts. I remember the license issued to Development Consultants Pvt. Ltd. of Calcutta was that of a shop and DCPL used to run according to shops and establishments act.

We have to maintain our dignity at proper forum at proper time. We basically supply drawings generated off our knowledge, specifications off our knowledge and experience and man power in project management consultancy. Such activities do not degrade us. We shall be degraded or downgraded if we compromise with accepted national and international standards.  

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 1:29 PM, ibarua forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
Quote:
             21st Jan 2013

I'm surprised that you are talking about charging consultancy fees in terms of rupees per sq.ft. Are we drawing supply contractors?

The fee has to be a percentage of the cost of the project.

For comprehensive services (architectural, structural, etc.), the Council of Architecture (the statutory body regulating the architectural profession) has prescribed certain minimum fees -- as percentage of the value of the work. The practice in the architectural profession is to charge fees as a percentage of the cost of the work -- at least in this backward part of the country where I live and work.

Indrajit Barua.

From: srinivasan_vasudevan
Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:02:58
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org) (general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org))
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure

           Dear all When quoting the consultancy fees on sft basis , one has to be careful as to what is the area for consideration Some builders do not pay for basement areas and parking , ramps etc., as they do not fetch revenue !!!When designing buildings with double or triple basements, where deep excavtion protection systems needs to be considered as part of structural designs , costs to be included in sft cost It is surprising and indeed stupid for structural engineers to be told , there is no fee consideration for the most challenging part of building deisgn !!Vasudevan Consulting engineer Bangalore RegardsTSVcruthi consultants consortium Pvt.LtdrajajinagarBanglore
From: "abubaker_ka"  
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:21:24 +0530
To:
ReplyTo: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org) (general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org))
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure


     Dear Viren I fully agree with Mr. Jayant, regarding the fee structure for structural Engineers. But generally there is a common practice in our place. For structural design and detailing one can charge 0.5% of the cost of construction . The cost of construction in our place comes to Rs.1000/sq.ft. for the structural part.That is, the structural consultancy rate /sq.ft is Rs.5.00. This will end up in Rs.4/sq.ft. Or even less at the time of closing the account unless the designer is careful in issuing drawings. According to me the reasonable rate for structural design is 1% of the cost of structure.( Rs.10.00/ sq.ft). Then only one can do good quality work. If the architectural and structural designs are done together, 2.5% of cost of construction or Rs.40/ sq.ft can be charged. This excludes any interior work or site supervision. With warm regards Prof.Dr.K.A.AbuBaker Sent from my iPad On 19 Jan 2013, at 19:21, "jlakhlani" wrote:       --auto removed--
     



     





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abubaker_ka
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 8
Location: KOCHI KERALA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:18 am    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

I think Mr. Gautam has gone wrong in mentioning the cost of construction. No where in India a construction can be done at Rs.150/ sq.ft.now. It may be 1500/ sq.ft. 1% fee is sufficient to do good quality work, according to me. Let Sefians from all part of the country come up with definite views and let us finalise a common rate. As there is no unity among the structural Engineers as in the case of Architects,we are not getting the fees we deserve.




With warm regards

Prof.Dr.K.A.AbuBaker


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On 22 Jan 2013, at 01:35, "gautam chattopadhyay" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:


[quote]            to indrajit, sangeeta, Viren

when we charge on basis of floor area + foundation we actually charge on the basis of construction cost only. A tentative amount per floor area is assumed as construction cost say 150 per sft or 1600 per sqm. Now if the fees be ascertained at 2% there is no harm i think. Architecture and structure may then be apportioned within the organisation. Viren and others raised a crucial question once again. this scenario is typical of india since there is no PE system here. anyone can sign a drawing. In USA only PEs and in UK, Australia, New Zealand only chartered engineers are allowed to sign drawings. Hence the rates go higher and quality of design and drawings are maintained. Though late, Institution of Engineers India is thinking of introducing PE system but I know it will change the scenario. Cunning politicians will raise question of democracy and will say there should be equal rights of engineers (LOLS). As u know such jestors are plenty in India.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 3:05 PM, gautam chattopadhyay forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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satish_jain
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:18 am    Post subject: consultancy fee structure Reply with quote

Dear all,I disagree with the comment that for multistoried building the charges should lower. One has to understand that with buildings becoming taller, the complexity of smartly dealing with the lateral forces increases tremendously and as such the fee should also increase. I think a fee of Rs 10 to 12 for buildings upto 45 to 50 stories will yield good structural engineering from the consultant and hence would save many fold more for the client by virtue of good concepts, good detailing ultimately leading to economical and efficient structural systems. Regards,Satish Jain- from Vodafone
From: "ajayk" <forum@sefindia.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 08:37:31 +0530
To: <general@sefindia.org>
ReplyTo: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure

     Agree with Sangeetha.   More so when the construction is multi-storied. I really do not believe the client/architect would pay us the same value for typical floors. Arguments could be on the lines that they are all typical with minor modifications, if any, and hence the realistic sft on which has to charge is much smaller than the sft of construction.    Hence, getting a 4-5 rs/sft is a dreamer for a structural engineering-alone firm. Typically, quote is based mostly on the man-hour basis for core engineering and ofcourse admin and asset overheads.    Big companies by virtue of the reputation tend to charge more as they generally have heavy overheads. Smaller companies typically are in a fix, a 2 rs/sft is generally the best. During recession (2010), the charges were as low as 0.5 rs/sft (peanuts, true). Since then, market has improved but on the importance aspect for structural engineers considering the complete supply chain from concept to commissioning, structural engrs are paid v low (probably MEP are paid lowest). It is a bit ironical considering the importance of structural engrs in the whole supply chain.   The natural solution is to expand the company to include architectural (and MEP) in which case, the quote can suddenly jump upto even 7-8 rs/sft, which is reasonably handsome and provide decent returns on projects.   Building industry is highly fragmented one and the market pulls you down to quote so low. Coz concepts like niche etc may not work for a routine small firm and the best way to quote is to quote less. This prolly explaing why structural engrs r paid less as well (lets say as compared to architects).   Hope it helps.   Regards     On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 1:33 PM, SANGEETA WIJ  wrote: [quote] Dr Abubaker has listed a preferred or a very theoretical figure and is on every Consultant’s wish-list; in the real life you may get shockers as structural consultants sometimes quote as low as 50 paise per sq feet! In fact I would be happy to get 1. To 1.5 % of structural cost as fees and even 4-6/- per sq feet for structures would make my day, for a Project of roughly 10 lakh sq feet or more; for smaller configurations or floors or villas, one must charge a lumpsum after evaluating your own costing based on design engineer’s and draftsman’s time, stationery, printing, computer and software cost, office executive support and rent, meetings’ time Regards Sangeeta Wij etc….  From: abubaker_ka [mailto:forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))]  Sent: 20 January 2013 11:21  To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org) (general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)) Subject: [SEFI] Re: consultancy fee structure     Dear Viren I fully agree with Mr. Jayant, regarding the fee structure for structural Engineers. But generally there is a common practice in our place. For structural design and detailing one can charge 0.5% of the cost of construction . The cost of construction in our place comes to Rs.1000/sq.ft. for the structural part.That is, the structural consultancy rate /sq.ft is Rs.5.00. This will end up in Rs.4/sq.ft. Or even less at the time of closing the account unless the designer is careful in issuing drawings. According to me the reasonable rate for structural design is 1% of the cost of structure.( Rs.10.00/ sq.ft). Then only one can do good quality work. If the architectural and structural designs are done together, 2.5% of cost of construction or Rs.40/ sq.ft can be charged. This excludes any interior work or site supervision.    With warm regards  Prof.Dr.K.A.AbuBaker   Sent from my iPad       On 19 Jan 2013, at 19:21, "jlakhlani" forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))))> wrote:   --auto removed--         --

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