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[Regulating Profession] - Opening Remarks on sub section "How do we regulate the structural engineering profession?
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girish.marathe
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:05 pm    Post subject: [Regulating Profession] - Opening Remarks on sub section "How do we regulate the structural engineering profession? Reply with quote

Dear bhowmik sir,
I completely agree with you. We must have one institution and it can have chapters in various cities, but governed by single philosophy.
This philosophy can be drafted by each city chapter heads.
Regards
Girish. S. Marathe.
Entech Engineers. On 10 Feb 2016 21:14, "bsec" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:[quote]            Dear Mr Arun,

May I inform you and all other Sefians that at the moment there are 3 institutions who are appealing Engineers for "Registration". 


a) The Institution of Engineers (India) [Copy of recent advertisement attached. This is also available in their website]


b) ECI ... as already explained by Dr Subramanian


c) CEAI (Consulting Engineers Association of India), in association with 9 other professional associations has also given call to many Engineers,  to apply so that they can establishh the Ă˘â‚¬ËśNational Register of Engineers’.


In my opinion, by going independently, these institutions, who represent the engineering fraternity, are sending a wrong signal to the decision makers and politicians.  They also confuse poor Engineer, who has to decide whether he should register with IE(I), CEAI or ECI ??


Such moves clearly shows mirror to all of us that we are not a cohesive force, when it comes to fighting for a cause and in my opinion, this is the root cause for us not having the Engineers Bill passed even after nearly 69 years of our independence.


I would have liked only one institution to register engineers and all other associations / institutions supporting and campaigning for the same. 


Best Wishes


Alok Bhowmick

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 12:16 PM, arunangshu forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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schogle79
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:31 pm    Post subject: [Regulating Profession] - Opening Remarks on sub section "How do we regulate the structural engineering profession? Reply with quote

Yes, I completely and wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Bhowmick to have one National Engineering Institute which overlooks professional engineering registration & exams for Professional Engineer (PE) license.

Swapnil Chogle


On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 10:38 AM, bsec <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
Dear Mr Arun,

May I inform you and all other Sefians that at the moment there are 3 institutions who are appealing Engineers for "Registration". 


a) The Institution of Engineers (India) [Copy of recent advertisement attached. This is also available in their website]


b) ECI ... as already explained by Dr Subramanian


c) CEAI (Consulting Engineers Association of India), in association with 9 other professional associations has also given call to many Engineers,  to apply so that they can establishh the Ă˘â‚¬ËśNational Register of Engineers’.


In my opinion, by going independently, these institutions, who represent the engineering fraternity, are sending a wrong signal to the decision makers and politicians.  They also confuse poor Engineer, who has to decide whether he should register with IE(I), CEAI or ECI ??


Such moves clearly shows mirror to all of us that we are not a cohesive force, when it comes to fighting for a cause and in my opinion, this is the root cause for us not having the Engineers Bill passed even after nearly 69 years of our independence.


I would have liked only one institution to register engineers and all other associations / institutions supporting and campaigning for the same. 


Best Wishes


Alok Bhowmick

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 12:16 PM, arunangshu <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

Quote:
               Dr. Subramanian & All Fellow Engineers,

Its a overwhelming step taken by ECI that now we can register ourselves against a proper evaluation process - much similar like developed nations or our Institution of Engineers India's PE/IntPE examination.

The only query I Have, is ECI registered engineers will be recognised internationally by The International Professional Engineers' Engagement (IPEA)?

Best regards
Arun








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Arun vignesh
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:24 pm    Post subject: [Regulating Profession] - Opening Remarks on sub section "How do we regulate the structural engineering profession? Reply with quote

Thank you Mr. Alok Bhowmick,
I agree with you, since we have 3 of such major institutions, our people are getting very much confused, they are all wrongly guided by others advice to register in some other institutions, hence our SEFI has to conclude & guide our people in a proper track, i request our seniors to guide us in our career, Registering in which is the correct one and also which one is the better option?

Actually my doubt was, there was no criteria mentioned about postgraduate engineers & about their professional experience regarding registration of Assistant Professional Engineer in ECI. Only undergraduate category was mentioned for APE registration, if anyone knows about it, please let us know.

Thanks and regards,
S.Arun
Structural Engineer


Sent from my Windows Phone

From: bsec (forum@sefindia.org)
Sent: ‎10/‎02/‎2016 09:14 PM
To: econf@sefindia.org (econf@sefindia.org)
Subject: {E-CONF2016} Re: [Regulating Profession] - Opening Remarks on sub section "How do we regulate the structural engineering profession?


Dear Mr Arun,

May I inform you and all other Sefians that at the moment there are 3 institutions who are appealing Engineers for "Registration".


a) The Institution of Engineers (India) [Copy of recent advertisement attached. This is also available in their website]


b) ECI ... as already explained by Dr Subramanian


c) CEAI (Consulting Engineers Association of India), in association with 9 other professional associations has also given call to many Engineers, to apply so that they can establishh the ‘National Register of Engineers’.


In my opinion, by going independently, these institutions, who represent the engineering fraternity, are sending a wrong signal to the decision makers and politicians. They also confuse poor Engineer, who has to decide whether he should register with IE(I), CEAI or ECI ??


Such moves clearly shows mirror to all of us that we are not a cohesive force, when it comes to fighting for a cause and in my opinion, this is the root cause for us not having the Engineers Bill passed even after nearly 69 years of our independence.


I would have liked only one institution to register engineers and all other associations / institutions supporting and campaigning for the same.


Best Wishes


Alok Bhowmick

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 12:16 PM, arunangshu forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
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bijoyav
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:27 pm    Post subject: [Regulating Profession] - Opening Remarks on subsection "How do we regulate the structural engineering profession? Reply with quote

Thank you Ms. Seth for the information.

From: alpa_sheth (forum@sefindia.org)
Sent: ‎10-‎02-‎2016 22:43
To: econf@sefindia.org (econf@sefindia.org)
Subject: {E-CONF2016} Re: [Regulating Profession] - Opening Remarks on subsection "How do we regulate the structural engineering profession?


     Arun,

The certification of ECI has no value as of now, internationally or nationally. They will need to have the govt recognise their certification. Its not clear if and when this will happen.

Alpa

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RKBhola
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:00 am    Post subject: [Regulating Profession] - Opening Remarks on sub section "How do we regulate the structural engineering profession? Reply with quote

Dear Dr. Subramanian,

It is good that Codes of Ethics for the Structural Engineering profession are existing in India. However, the issue here is one of implementation, and investigation, judgement and publication of any unethical behaviour that comes to the notice. As a profession we lack such a system. 


In my view, the system may be internally organised for implementation of the Code of Ethics by the Association without waiting for any legal sanction from statutory authorities. It's a system for the "Internal Elevation" of the profession. 


Similarly, we must publish a "Charter of Duties and Professional Standards" that all Structural Engineers must maintain while delivering services to clients. This Charter may be shared with organisations of clients such as Credai, CPWD, PWDs, etc. along with a standard recommended Professional Fee structure, so that all are aware about what standard of services and design are expected for the "Standard Fee". While, there may be engineers who may work for fee much lower than the recommended one, the clients will be equally aware that that is the level of service they should expect while doling out 'peanuts'. 


In my view, the above steps are practical and actionable within a short time, and can be instrumental to increased Self-Esteem, Self-Improvement and Self-Regulation within our noble profession.  


Regards


RK Bhola
Director
Civtech Consultants Pvt. Ltd. 
Noida | Bengaluru




On Wednesday 10 February 2016, Dr. N. Subramanian <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear Er Cohen,

I am happy that a Senior Vice President of Thornton Tomasetti (which is a renowned consulting firm in USA) is participating in our e-conference.

Our Engg. Associations do have drafted code of Ethics. For example the code of ethics of Engineering Council of India is given in their website: http://www.ecindia.org/

Just for your info:

There is an Indian book: Professional Ethics, by R. Subramanian, Oxford Univ. Press, 2013, 520 pp, Rs. 350 [http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=61016]

My friend Er Vivek also drafted some Ethics for Structural Engineers:http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21345-This link also contains the Code Of Ethics drafted by Institution of Engineers(India)

My friend Er N. Prabhakar and I have also posted an article showing high professional ethics shown by (late) Er. William LeMessurier, one of North America's most respected engineers, while designing the Citicorp Center Tower-http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=64069 & http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8986

Perhaps, many of us are observing it in our profession, without knowing it. We need to have articles on Ethics similar to those published in the Civil Engineering Magazine of ASCE.

Warm regards,
Subramanian


      James_Cohen wrote:                Dear SEFIANS,
A question from abroad, to add to the excellent suggestions already made. Does the Structural Engineering profession in India subscribe to a Code of Ethics and, if so, are there any industry-internal means by which allegations of unethical behavior can be investigated, judged and published? Even without legal backing to enforce penalties, this can be a powerful means to elevate the profession.

Regards,

James S. Cohen P.E.
Senior Vice President
Thornton Tomasetti
744 Broad Street
Newark, NJ 07102-3802
T +1.973.286.6100 F +1.973.286.6101
D +1.973.286.6104 M +1.917.733.0204
JCohen@ThorntonTomasetti.com (JCohen@ThorntonTomasetti.com)
www.ThorntonTomasetti.com
40 Wall Street
New York, NY 10005-1304
T +1.212.367.3000 F +1.212.497.2488
D +1.212.367.2988 M +1.917.733.0204
     
     



     


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ahmedbilal774
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:00 am    Post subject: [Regulating Profession] - Opening Remarks on sub section "How do we regulate the structural engineering profession? Reply with quote

Dear N.S. Siri have completed my M.Tech in Structural Dynamics from IITR and presently working as PGET in L&T  Constructions. I would like to know is it necessary for us to register ourselves with any of the engineering associations like IOE, ECI, etc. What benefits do we get from the registration. And if I want to register myself, which institution should I go for?


Regards
Ahmed Bilal 

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 1:06 AM, Dr. N. Subramanian <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear All,

I read in a Tamil Construction Magazine(edited by Er. A. Veerappan, retd. Chief Engineer of State PWD) that the Engg. Council of India (ECI) launched the registration of Professional Engineers, Associate Professional Engineers and Student Engineers, jointly with its Member Associations in Nov. 2015.

I believe that if you are registered with ECI, you need not register with any state level registration.


Criteria for registering as Professional Engineer (PE) and Application for the same as per ECI is given in their website: http://www.ecindia.org/

Warm regards,
Subramanian
     



     


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anjan_sen
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:00 am    Post subject: [Regulating Profession] - Opening Remarks on sub section "How do we regulate the structural engineering profession? Reply with quote

Dear Sirs,Any civil engineer can be a structural designer without being a member of any "body of structural engineers" and they are not bound by the ethics followed by any such "body", I think the statement is correct, if not, I beg to be corrected. 
For failure of a structure, no engineer can be legally made responsible if not (s)he is too unfortunate. So the fact possibly remains that any civil engineer can try his/her hand in structural designing free of mental burden of responsibilities of consequences.
We see millions of structures coming up everywhere in the country where the masons are the structural designers & builders, the stabilities need not be certified by a qualified designer and these are not insisted by any sanctioning authority. When some of such structures fail, no one is held responsible even such lapses are criminal negligence.
In case we have a statutory body of structural engineers where all structural engineers, whether practicing individually or working in organizations, are registered to practice in certain level(s) and would be legally responsible for their actions, then only we would have meaningful worth; this calls for strong lobbying. 
Regards
Sen 

On Wednesday, 10 February 2016, Dr. N. Subramanian <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear Er Cohen,

I am happy that a Senior Vice President of Thornton Tomasetti (which is a renowned consulting firm in USA) is participating in our e-conference.

Our Engg. Associations do have drafted code of Ethics. For example the code of ethics of Engineering Council of India is given in their website: http://www.ecindia.org/

Just for your info:

There is an Indian book: Professional Ethics, by R. Subramanian, Oxford Univ. Press, 2013, 520 pp, Rs. 350 [http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=61016]

My friend Er Vivek also drafted some Ethics for Structural Engineers:http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21345-This link also contains the Code Of Ethics drafted by Institution of Engineers(India)

My friend Er N. Prabhakar and I have also posted an article showing high professional ethics shown by (late) Er. William LeMessurier, one of North America's most respected engineers, while designing the Citicorp Center Tower-http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=64069 & http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8986

Perhaps, many of us are observing it in our profession, without knowing it. We need to have articles on Ethics similar to those published in the Civil Engineering Magazine of ASCE.

Warm regards,
Subramanian


      James_Cohen wrote:                Dear SEFIANS,
A question from abroad, to add to the excellent suggestions already made. Does the Structural Engineering profession in India subscribe to a Code of Ethics and, if so, are there any industry-internal means by which allegations of unethical behavior can be investigated, judged and published? Even without legal backing to enforce penalties, this can be a powerful means to elevate the profession.

Regards,

James S. Cohen P.E.
Senior Vice President
Thornton Tomasetti
744 Broad Street
Newark, NJ 07102-3802
T +1.973.286.6100 F +1.973.286.6101
D +1.973.286.6104 M +1.917.733.0204
JCohen@ThorntonTomasetti.com (JCohen@ThorntonTomasetti.com)
www.ThorntonTomasetti.com
40 Wall Street
New York, NY 10005-1304
T +1.212.367.3000 F +1.212.497.2488
D +1.212.367.2988 M +1.917.733.0204
     
     



     


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear All,

I am not much aware about the role of ECI to regulate engineering services in India.  

I guess, ECI and many other similar bodies are serving for all engineering disciplines and may not  have adequate focus to bring professional service status to structural engineers.  Most other disciplines perform tests for their products before it is launched for use in larger population.  In most cases, they have necessary approval from governing bodies and that too inform of tests.  Hence, government may not be serious to consider professional services status to engineers.

The structural engineers product, building design unfortunately can not be tested.  Hence, the role and liability of structural engineer is much larger as compared to other engineering services.

I think this is a serious issue and if the government is serious about the population, they have to have a law for any services related to safety of the people.  The ECI or other body can be an initiating agency, but there has to be a separate law for structural engineering profession.  It is irony that the other registered professional services have no direct relation to public safety ( I am referring to Arch, Chartered accountants etc.) and they are registered bodies to protect their professional interest and liabilities.

The big question is HOW to push government for such law?  Unfortunately, we have more associations to claim for protecting structural engineers interest and hence, there is a confusion.  Moreover, as a general knowledge, people even don't know what is a structural engineer's role?  Someone can help the forum understand that which lobby is resisting such status to structural engineer?  Opposition to the structural engineer's legal liability status is much larger than the push given by all of us.  Is it due to lack of unity?  Seriously, we need to find answer in case all our professional fellows respect the safety of population and is keen to develop a 21st century infrastructure for the nation.  

WE have debated this in past and many suggestions have come, but nothing much has been done due to lack of serious concerns at the deciding authority levels.

We can pour in adding words, annoyance, anger and frustration, but unless something concrete is done, we will be discussing similar issues after a decade also..

Just few points for debate..

Regards,

Jignesh V Chokshi
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somasekhar
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:43 pm    Post subject: [Regulating Profession] - Opening Remarks on sub section "How do we regulate the structural engineering profession? Reply with quote

Dear all
I believe like council of architecture there should be council of engineers recognised by court of law.
Others are requested not to play spoil sport once again .  
Somasekhar
On 11-Feb-2016 8:48 pm, "JVCSNL" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear All,

I am not much aware about the role of ECI to regulate engineering services in India.

I guess, ECI and many other similar bodies are serving for all engineering disciplines and may not have adequate focus to bring professional service status to structural engineers. Most other disciplines perform tests for their products before it is launched for use in larger population. In most cases, they have necessary approval from governing bodies and that too inform of tests. Hence, government may not be serious to consider professional services status to engineers.

The structural engineers product, building design unfortunately can not be tested. Hence, the role and liability of structural engineer is much larger as compared to other engineering services.

I think this is a serious issue and if the government is serious about the population, they have to have a law for any services related to safety of the people. The ECI or other body can be an initiating agency, but there has to be a separate law for structural engineering profession. It is irony that the other registered professional services have no direct relation to public safety ( I am referring to Arch, Chartered accountants etc.) and they are registered bodies to protect their professional interest and liabilities.

The big question is HOW to push government for such law? Unfortunately, we have more associations to claim for protecting structural engineers interest and hence, there is a confusion. Moreover, as a general knowledge, people even don't know what is a structural engineer's role? Someone can help the forum understand that which lobby is resisting such status to structural engineer? Opposition to the structural engineer's legal liability status is much larger than the push given by all of us. Is it due to lack of unity? Seriously, we need to find answer in case all our professional fellows respect the safety of population and is keen to develop a 21st century infrastructure for the nation.

WE have debated this in past and many suggestions have come, but nothing much has been done due to lack of serious concerns at the deciding authority levels.

We can pour in adding words, annoyance, anger and frustration, but unless something concrete is done, we will be discussing similar issues after a decade also..

Just few points for debate..

Regards,

Jignesh V Chokshi
     



     


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:00 am    Post subject: [Regulating Profession] - Opening Remarks on sub section "How do we regulate the structural engineering profession? Reply with quote

Rangarao
eco-friendly innovation is the way.....


On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 1:06 PM, JVCSNL <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear All,

I am not much aware about the role of ECI to regulate engineering services in India.

I guess, ECI and many other similar bodies are serving for all engineering disciplines and may not have adequate focus to bring professional service status to structural engineers. Most other disciplines perform tests for their products before it is launched for use in larger population. In most cases, they have necessary approval from governing bodies and that too inform of tests. Hence, government may not be serious to consider professional services status to engineers.

The structural engineers product, building design unfortunately can not be tested. Hence, the role and liability of structural engineer is much larger as compared to other engineering services.

I think this is a serious issue and if the government is serious about the population, they have to have a law for any services related to safety of the people. The ECI or other body can be an initiating agency, but there has to be a separate law for structural engineering profession. It is irony that the other registered professional services have no direct relation to public safety ( I am referring to Arch, Chartered accountants etc.) and they are registered bodies to protect their professional interest and liabilities.

The big question is HOW to push government for such law? Unfortunately, we have more associations to claim for protecting structural engineers interest and hence, there is a confusion. Moreover, as a general knowledge, people even don't know what is a structural engineer's role? Someone can help the forum understand that which lobby is resisting such status to structural engineer? Opposition to the structural engineer's legal liability status is much larger than the push given by all of us. Is it due to lack of unity? Seriously, we need to find answer in case all our professional fellows respect the safety of population and is keen to develop a 21st century infrastructure for the nation.

WE have debated this in past and many suggestions have come, but nothing much has been done due to lack of serious concerns at the deciding authority levels.

We can pour in adding words, annoyance, anger and frustration, but unless something concrete is done, we will be discussing similar issues after a decade also..

Just few points for debate..

Regards,

Jignesh V Chokshi
     



     


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