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[Structural Engineering Consultancy Fees] Introductory Remarks
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Dr. N. Subramanian
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:48 pm    Post subject: [Structural Engineering Consultancy Fees] Summary of discussions Reply with quote

Dear All,

Please find enclosed the Summary of discussions that took place in the past one week on the topic of  Structural Engineering Fees:

Senior Engineer and author Er. J.D. Buch is of the opinion that clients do not pay standard fees due to cut-throat competition, particularly in India. He also felt that the Architects/Engineers who speak so forcefully in various forums on the need of having standard fees, themselves compete among themselves and are prepared to work at the lowest unworkable fee.He says that we should accept this fact and find a solution!

Another friend and Senior Engineer Er.  N. Prabhakar feels that there can not be a standard fee, as it depends on the quantum and quality of service that is provided, besides the reputation of the Consultant. He says that there is no such standard fee among other professionals like doctors, lawyers and chartered accountant (I do not think so-CA's have a standard fee structure; My CA quoted one, Specialist Doctor's consulting fee is uniform, I think Rs. 500, and ordinary doctors charge Rs.100 as consulting fee). He rightly says that the consultancy fee paid by the property developers/builders to small consultancy offices (with a staff of say about 30 people), doing mainly building type structures, is very less. He also points out that  it is a question of survival for these small offices and hence an united action is needed to fix minimum fees, without any under-cutting, for building type structures.

My friend and another senior engineer Dr.V.Balakumar says that he
gave up his professional practice 8 years ago, since the fee was never paid at the right time and on many occasions the efficiency of the designer was measured by the quantum of steel provided per sq.ft. He  could not get more than Rs. 2/SQ.FT. He also mentioned about the steep rise in the salary level of draughtsman and engineers due to the entrance of MNCs.

My friend and another well known Bridge Designer Er. Alok Bhowmick blamed ourselves for not getting reasonable fees. He felt that it is due to the following:

a)        We are not organised enough to set for ourselves, a minimum standards of performance and minimum fee structure.  
  
b)        We are accepting very low fee due to cut-throat competition and also because we know that we can get away performing poorly in the job by hook or by crook.
  
c)        Due to absence of any licensing regime in the country, there is no accountability for structural engineers and therefore there is no fear for non-performance. We have allowed ourselves to lower our standards and compromised.
  
d)        We also accept unrealistic schedules for design submissions, and in order to finish on time we compromise on the quality of delivery output, which may surface later.     
  
e)        There is no fear of doing poor quality work. Whenever there is a structural failure,  all people involved in the profession somehow bury the issue till public memory fades. Due to this we do not learn positive things from structural failures.
  
f)        For our fee to be reasonable, he suggests the following:
  
   - All structural Engineering must be a member of any consulting  / structural engineering associations (e,g. IastructE, CEAI ...etc.)  
  
- All such associations / institutions must improve their performance and should be much more active and aggressive in disseminating knowledge, in imparting special training to engineers for continuous professional development and in orienting young engineers in the right direction.
  - The Governing Council of all these associations must do brain storming in these lines. They should induct bright and young structural engineers in the decision making team so that they become a part of the think tank from early age.  
  
- All big sized consultancy organisation MUST aim to set a standard of performance in addition to setting a standard of fee. Both are equally important.

Er Alok mentioned about the two guidelines brought out by The Indian Association of Structural Engineers (IAStructE)  in the year 2014  for proof checking of buildings and bridges respectively. Er Anees endorsed the views of Er Alok.

Er Deepak Bansal feels that  there must be clear and unambitious definition of roles and responsibilities of each professional in every project and that there should be liability provisions on structural engineers for their actions.

Er Ankur Shah feels that many who call themselves as consultants (just because they were in the field for a number of years) do not do their job properly. He suggests that we should have a competent body for validating/rejecting Structural Designs and that Structural engineering license has to be issued only after passing proper exams. His views were endorsed by Er Ajay. Similar views by expressed by Er Ajay Chaudhari.

Er Dipak Bhattacharya expressed that Govt. agencies have their own problems and controls and hence Committee Members of IAStructE, should make separate documentations/Guidelines keeping Government Clients in mind. He feels that due to the clauses prescribed in documents of Govt. agencies, there is no responsibility for the proof checking authorities- Hence they do not do their job properly but collect huge fees, and the responsibility of the design is with the Principal Design Consultants only! This point is endorsed by Er A.V. Bijoy, who also cautions about the importance of designing buildings in accordance with NBC.

Another well known consultant Er Vasant Kelkar explains how structural engineers are not paid well for the design of basements and lower parking and podium floors and we accept them, because we do not have a strong organization/lobby like Chartered Accountants. He also mentions about the escalation of costs of all items such as staff salaries, prices and maintenance costs of software, & computers, but consultants are paid the same rate per sq. ft. as fees by the clients;  due to this consultants are unable to pay decent salaries to their staff. Hence he suggests that the fees should be linked to the Cost of Living index. He also paints a dark future as far as structural fees are concerned comparing future designers to the advocates standing outside courts in Mumbai looking for prospective clients!



Er Sunil Sodhai says the Municipal Corporations should not accept simply the Structural Design Certificate but insist on Structural drawings and check them in their own office employing proper Structural Engineers.


Er H.N. Prasannakumar, who is a chief engineer, feels we are not paid properly compared to Architects, contractors, or  project co-coordinators. His suggstion is to pay 10 % of total RCC cost as fee for built-up area more than 1 lakh, similar to that paid to the contractor.

My friend and well known consultant Er Umesh B. Rao mentions about the Manual for Guidelines of Consulting Engineers, published by Consultancy Development Center [ Now called as Consulting Engineers Association of India] in 1993 in association with Association of Consulting Civil Engineers and Association of Consulting Engineers. The paper posted along with my introductory remarks discusses about these Guidelines.


Hope to have more discussions and solutions in the next week.

Warm regards,
Subramanian
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From:
Alif Engineers <alifengineers1>

To:
econf@sefindia.org

Subject:
consultancy fees


****************************************

Dear All,

Quality of services provided is many a times related with the fees being
claimed/given for the structural engineering services. How can we expect
that a structural engineer who is charging as low as Re 1-2 per sq ft as
consultancy charges put in the required efforts in completing the work.
Result is poor quality of work where in multi-story buildings are completed
in one or two drawings within  2-3 days.



This poor quality service which comes at a very low price has finally
devalued the structural Engineers who in fact should have been one of the
main players in the whole process of the construction is just sidelined……


My suggestion is we need to have a legal binding association for
structural Engineer to practice. All individual structural engineers or
structural companies need to be registered with it to practice as a
structural Engineer/firm.


Then we can have a minimum fee structure based on certain guidelines, this
should also include the extent of service to be provided. In this way we
can regulate the field of structural engineers. It should also be binding
on individuals/architects/contractors to avail the services only from such
registered structural engineers.


Regards

Irshad Khan
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jdbuch
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Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:59 am    Post subject: [Structural Engineering Consultancy Fees] Introductory Remarks Reply with quote

Dear NS,

In the ICJ Dec 2010, My 'Point of View' on 'What ails structural engineers' was published. I attach this article for your ready reference. I have given definite suggestions on what can be done to improve the profession. You also wrote on the same subject at that time.

SEFI forum is competent to deliberate on my suggestions given in the article.

Regards

J.D.Buch




From: "Dr. N. Subramanian" <forum@sefindia.org>
Sent: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:42:45
To: econf@sefindia.org
Subject: {E-CONF2016} [Structural Engineering Consultancy Fees] Introductory Remarks
           Dear All,

Please find enclosed the Summary of discussions that took place in the past one week on the topic of Structural Engineering Fees:

Senior Engineer and author Er. J.D. Buch is of the opinion that clients do not pay standard fees due to cut-throat competition, particularly in India. He also felt that the Architects/Engineers who speak so forcefully in various forums on the need of having standard fees, themselves compete among themselves and are prepared to work at the lowest unworkable fee.He says that we should accept this fact and find a solution!

Another friend and Senior Engineer Er. N. Prabhakar feels that there can not be a standard fee, as it depends on the quantum and quality of service that is provided, besides the reputation of the Consultant. He says that there is no such standard fee among other professionals like doctors, lawyers and chartered accountant (I do not think so-CA's have a standard fee structure; My CA quoted one, Specialist Doctor's consulting fee is uniform, I think Rs. 500, and ordinary doctors charge Rs.100 as consulting fee). He rightly says that the consultancy fee paid by the property developers/builders to small consultancy offices (with a staff of say about 30 people), doing mainly building type structures, is very less. He also points out that it is a question of survival for these small offices and hence an united action is needed to fix minimum fees, without any under-cutting, for building type structures.

My friend and another senior engineer Dr.V.Balakumar says that he
gave up his professional practice 8 years ago, since the fee was never paid at the right time and on many occasions the efficiency of the designer was measured by the quantum of steel provided per sq.ft. He could not get more than Rs. 2/SQ.FT. He also mentioned about the steep rise in the salary level of draughtsman and engineers due to the entrance of MNCs.

My friend and another well known Bridge Designer Er. Alok Bhowmick blamed ourselves for not getting reasonable fees. He felt that it is due to the following:

a)      We are not organised enough to set for ourselves, a minimum standards of performance and minimum fee structure.

b)      We are accepting very low fee due to cut-throat competition and also because we know that we can get away performing poorly in the job by hook or by crook.

c)      Due to absence of any licensing regime in the country, there is no accountability for structural engineers and therefore there is no fear for non-performance. We have allowed ourselves to lower our standards and compromised.

d)      We also accept unrealistic schedules for design submissions, and in order to finish on time we compromise on the quality of delivery output, which may surface later.     

e)      There is no fear of doing poor quality work. Whenever there is a structural failure, all people involved in the profession somehow bury the issue till public memory fades. Due to this we do not learn positive things from structural failures.

f)      For our fee to be reasonable, he suggests the following:

- All structural Engineering must be a member of any consulting / structural engineering associations (e,g. IastructE, CEAI ...etc.)

- All such associations / institutions must improve their performance and should be much more active and aggressive in disseminating knowledge, in imparting special training to engineers for continuous professional development and in orienting young engineers in the right direction.
- The Governing Council of all these associations must do brain storming in these lines. They should induct bright and young structural engineers in the decision making team so that they become a part of the think tank from early age.

- All big sized consultancy organisation MUST aim to set a standard of performance in addition to setting a standard of fee. Both are equally important.

Er Alok mentioned about the two guidelines brought out by The Indian Association of Structural Engineers (IAStructE) in the year 2014 for proof checking of buildings and bridges respectively. Er Anees endorsed the views of Er Alok.

Er Deepak Bansal feels that there must be clear and unambitious definition of roles and responsibilities of each professional in every project and that there should be liability provisions on structural engineers for their actions.

Er Ankur Shah feels that many who call themselves as consultants (just because they were in the field for a number of years) do not do their job properly. He suggests that we should have a competent body for validating/rejecting Structural Designs and that Structural engineering license has to be issued only after passing proper exams. His views were endorsed by Er Ajay. Similar views by expressed by Er Ajay Chaudhari.

Er Dipak Bhattacharya expressed that Govt. agencies have their own problems and controls and hence Committee Members of IAStructE, should make separate documentations/Guidelines keeping Government Clients in mind. He feels that due to the clauses prescribed in documents of Govt. agencies, there is no responsibility for the proof checking authorities- Hence they do not do their job properly but collect huge fees, and the responsibility of the design is with the Principal Design Consultants only! This point is endorsed by Er A.V. Bijoy, who also cautions about the importance of designing buildings in accordance with NBC.

Another well known consultant Er Vasant Kelkar explains how structural engineers are not paid well for the design of basements and lower parking and podium floors and we accept them, because we do not have a strong organization/lobby like Chartered Accountants. He also mentions about the escalation of costs of all items such as staff salaries, prices and maintenance costs of software, & computers, but consultants are paid the same rate per sq. ft. as fees by the clients; due to this consultants are unable to pay decent salaries to their staff. Hence he suggests that the fees should be linked to the Cost of Living index. He also paints a dark future as far as structural fees are concerned comparing future designers to the advocates standing outside courts in Mumbai looking for prospective clients!



Er Sunil Sodhai says the Municipal Corporations should not accept simply the Structural Design Certificate but insist on Structural drawings and check them in their own office employing proper Structural Engineers.


Er H.N. Prasannakumar, who is a chief engineer, feels we are not paid properly compared to Architects, contractors, or project co-coordinators. His suggstion is to pay 10 % of total RCC cost as fee for built-up area more than 1 lakh, similar to that paid to the contractor.

My friend and well known consultant Er Umesh B. Rao mentions about the Manual for Guidelines of Consulting Engineers, published by Consultancy Development Center [ Now called as Consulting Engineers Association of India] in 1993 in association with Association of Consulting Civil Engineers and Association of Consulting Engineers. The paper posted along with my introductory remarks discusses about these Guidelines.


Hope to have more discussions and solutions in the next week.

Warm regards,
Subramanian
     



     
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:59 am    Post subject: [Structural Engineering Consultancy Fees] Introductory Remarks Reply with quote

dear friends, Please excuse me for writing on this forum.please go through the following joke.some 50 years back,one  learned professor told me. Dogs from Delhi went to Delhi RAILWAY STATION to see off an old dog,called tau(great uncle) for  Haridwar(Holy city)Visit.Tau returned after four days.The Delhi dogs went to station to receive him.All  of them asked tau,how was your visit to Holy Town.what he said"All was o.k.,but own community did not  spare me,they were continuously barking on me".Professional jealousy,cut throat competition,no  regulatory authority fixed by Law are some of the reasons,which have let down our profession.Architects  are supervising structures,client does not know the role of engineer.But in medical professions it is  not so.in U.S.A AND BRITAIN,may be some other countries govt. has the authority to issue license for  Practicing Engineers by examination.there must be a regulator. Engineers in India are not vote banks for politicians, therefore no one cares for them.Mushroom growth  of many universities,has deteriorated standard of engineering education.These engineers after training  for few years may prove to be equally good.we can not blame the students.system is responsible. even now Mason/Mistries supervise the buildings,they do not know the role of water in concrete mix. so uncertain strength of concrete mix is used for RCC work.owner does not want to pay to the  engineer,but willing to spend lacs of rupees for construction.now i narrate my personal  experience,where i was going to be killed.one contractor did a bad job by joining hand with the  engineers of my section. i found who were responsible who entered the bill in measurement book. one  evening i was going out with my family,they arranged a vehicle to knock me on the road.i was on a  scooter with my wife and kids.My leg was broken.i was unconscious.some one brought me to the hospital.i  gained conscious after 20 hours.i was operated upon and six months i was on the bed.When the GENERAL  MANAGER visited me and asked me about the accident,i told him all.The payment to the contractor was  made by my department head with out my approval.I was working for the largest private sector company  having its own township and employing more than 60,000 employees.The General MANAGER was a nice man.He  made me the full payment for the period and visited me periodically. One of my friend,he retired as professor and dean of one university.he wanted to open one B.ed college  for girls.The CM of the state asked for money.He said i am a retired professor,from where i can pay.my  main motto is to train female teachers.What the CM said"sit at home and enjoy",we are running state as  business,we have spent the money on elections and have to recover it.He used to tell me that many of my  students are IAA,IPS and in judiciary,but of of no avail.Many freedom fighters were hanged,but now  after independence what is our fate. Let us resolve that we provide suggestion to our Prime Minister, to start immediately projects to  employ labour and engineers.Engineers are job creators.OUR PM needs support from industry and public  for sincerity.Let there be no scam.if projects like new townships starts.Up gradation of Railways will  create more opportunities for all including engineers.there are more than 150,000 bridges in  railways,which require renewal.Please come up with new ideas,merely discussing fee for serviceS is not  going to help us.Building a character of Nation is more important.image of civil engineers in the  society has been spoiled by Govt. engineers(NOT ALL).Goodwill has to be generated by engineers in  society and earned.It can not be demanded.Let truth prevail.win heart and mind of the masses who engage  us, by delivering quality products and services.APPROACH GOVT. for appointing regulator similar to  USA,BRITAIN,GERMANY AND France. warm regards satya paul  On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:42:38 +0530 "Dr. N. Subramanian"  wrote >                   Dear All,  >  > Please find enclosed the Summary of discussions that took place in the past one week on the topic of  Structural Engineering Fees: >  > Senior Engineer and author Er. J.D. Buch is of the opinion that clients do not pay standard fees due to  cut-throat competition, particularly in India. He also felt that the Architects/Engineers who speak so  forcefully in various forums on the need of having standard fees, themselves compete among themselves  and are prepared to work at the lowest unworkable fee.He says that we should accept this fact and find  a solution! >  > Another friend and Senior Engineer Er. N. Prabhakar feels that there can not be a standard fee, as it  depends on the quantum and quality of service that is provided, besides the reputation of the  Consultant. He says that there is no such standard fee among other professionals like doctors, lawyers  and chartered accountant (I do not think so-CA's have a standard fee structure; My CA quoted one,  Specialist Doctor's consulting fee is uniform, I think Rs. 500, and ordinary doctors charge Rs.100 as  consulting fee). He rightly says that the consultancy fee paid by the property developers/builders to  small consultancy offices (with a staff of say about 30 people), doing mainly building type structures,  is very less. He also points out that it is a question of survival for these small offices and hence  an united action is needed to fix minimum fees, without any under-cutting, for building type  structures. >  > My friend and another senior engineer Dr.V.Balakumar says that he > gave up his professional practice 8 years ago, since the fee was never paid at the right time and on  many occasions the efficiency of the designer was measured by the quantum of steel provided per sq.ft.  He could not get more than Rs. 2/SQ.FT. He also mentioned about the steep rise in the salary level of  draughtsman and engineers due to the entrance of MNCs.  >  > My friend and another well known Bridge Designer Er. Alok Bhowmick blamed ourselves for not getting  reasonable fees. He felt that it is due to the following: >  > a)      We are not organised enough to set for ourselves, a minimum standards of performance and  minimum fee structure.  >  > b)      We are accepting very low fee due to cut-throat competition and also because we know that we  can get away performing poorly in the job by hook or by crook.  >  > c)      Due to absence of any licensing regime in the country, there is no accountability for  structural engineers and therefore there is no fear for non-performance. We have allowed ourselves to  lower our standards and compromised.  >  > d)      We also accept unrealistic schedules for design submissions, and in order to finish on time  we compromise on the quality of delivery output, which may surface later.      >  > e)      There is no fear of doing poor quality work. Whenever there is a structural failure, all  people involved in the profession somehow bury the issue till public memory fades. Due to this we do  not learn positive things from structural failures.  >  > f)      For our fee to be reasonable, he suggests the following:  >  > - All structural Engineering must be a member of any consulting / structural engineering  associations (e,g. IastructE, CEAI ...etc.)  >  > - All such associations / institutions must improve their performance and should be much more active  and aggressive in disseminating knowledge, in imparting special training to engineers for continuous  professional development and in orienting young engineers in the right direction.  > - The Governing Council of all these associations must do brain storming in these lines. They should  induct bright and young structural engineers in the decision making team so that they become a part of  the think tank from early age.  >  > - All big sized consultancy organisation MUST aim to set a standard of performance in addition to  setting a standard of fee. Both are equally important.  >  > Er Alok mentioned about the two guidelines brought out by The Indian Association of Structural  Engineers (IAStructE) in the year 2014 for proof checking of buildings and bridges respectively. Er  Anees endorsed the views of Er Alok. >  > Er Deepak Bansal feels that there must be clear and unambitious definition of roles and  responsibilities of each professional in every project and that there should be liability provisions on  structural engineers for their actions. >  > Er Ankur Shah feels that many who call themselves as consultants (just because they were in the field  for a number of years) do not do their job properly. He suggests that we should have a competent body  for validating/rejecting Structural Designs and that Structural engineering license has to be issued  only after passing proper exams. His views were endorsed by Er Ajay. Similar views by expressed by Er  Ajay Chaudhari. >  > Er Dipak Bhattacharya expressed that Govt. agencies have their own problems and controls and hence  Committee Members of IAStructE, should make separate documentations/Guidelines keeping Government  Clients in mind. He feels that due to the clauses prescribed in documents of Govt. agencies, there is  no responsibility for the proof checking authorities- Hence they do not do their job properly but  collect huge fees, and the responsibility of the design is with the Principal Design Consultants only!  This point is endorsed by Er A.V. Bijoy, who also cautions about the importance of designing buildings  in accordance with NBC.  >  > Another well known consultant Er Vasant Kelkar explains how structural engineers are not paid well for  the design of basements and lower parking and podium floors and we accept them, because we do not have  a strong organization/lobby like Chartered Accountants. He also mentions about the escalation of costs  of all items such as staff salaries, prices and maintenance costs of software, & computers, but  consultants are paid the same rate per sq. ft. as fees by the clients; due to this consultants are  unable to pay decent salaries to their staff. Hence he suggests that the fees should be linked to the  Cost of Living index. He also paints a dark future as far as structural fees are concerned comparing  future designers to the advocates standing outside courts in Mumbai looking for prospective clients! >  >  >  > Er Sunil Sodhai says the Municipal Corporations should not accept simply the Structural Design  Certificate but insist on Structural drawings and check them in their own office employing proper  Structural Engineers.  >  >  > Er H.N. Prasannakumar, who is a chief engineer, feels we are not paid properly compared to Architects,  contractors, or project co-coordinators. His suggstion is to pay 10 % of total RCC cost as fee for  built-up area more than 1 lakh, similar to that paid to the contractor.  >  > My friend and well known consultant Er Umesh B. Rao mentions about the Manual for Guidelines of  Consulting Engineers, published by Consultancy Development Center [ Now called as Consulting Engineers  Association of India] in 1993 in association with Association of Consulting Civil Engineers and  Association of Consulting Engineers. The paper posted along with my introductory remarks discusses  about these Guidelines. >  >  > Hope to have more discussions and solutions in the next week. >  > Warm regards, > Subramanian       > >  >  > --

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Dr NS,
I had stressed the urgent need to comply with NBC because I have come across many designs (Architectural Designs) that have not considered many of the stipulations of NBC. I know that the client have paid the fees as per the norms of Counsel of Architects. It is the ignorance of the client that is being exploited here.
Similar case will arise, if, we form another organisation and demand for fee as per the structure framed by us.
Architects can appoint a structural engineer and claim fees in accordance with the fees structure.
If the client is unaware of NBC, and what is stipulated in it, the immediate contact person with him, i.e. an Architect can exploit his ignorance.  Is there a mechanism to educate clients regarding this? or any authority to check whether any building is designed in accordance with NBC?
If that is the case, demand for people who design in accordance with NBC will arise and hence fees. (Demand - cost  theory)
I think Dr NS can add more from the experience he has from overseas. I feel, all the buildings there are designed and constructed
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Dr NS,
I had stressed the urgent need to comply with NBC because I have come across many designs (Architectural Designs) that have not considered many of the stipulations of NBC. I know that the client have paid the fees as per the norms of Counsel of Architects. It is the ignorance of the client that is being exploited here.
Similar case will arise, if, we form another organisation and demand for fee as per the structure framed by us.
Architects can appoint a structural engineer and claim fees in accordance with the fees structure.
If the client is unaware of NBC, and what is stipulated in it, the immediate contact person with him, i.e. an Architect can exploit his ignorance.  Is there a mechanism to educate clients regarding this? or any authority to check whether any building is designed in accordance with NBC?
If that is the case, demand for people who design in accordance with NBC will arise and hence fees. (Demand - cost  theory)
I think Dr NS can add more from the experience he has from overseas. I feel, all the buildings there are designed and constructed in accordance with relevant codes of practice there and there is a mechanism to check. Am I right?
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irshad
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:41 am    Post subject: Consultancy fees Reply with quote

Dear All,

Quality of services provided is many a times related with the fees being
claimed/given for the structural engineering services. How can we expect
that a structural engineer who is charging as low as Re 1-2 per sq ft as
consultancy charges put in the required efforts in completing the work.
Result is poor quality of work where in multi-story buildings are completed
in one or two drawings within 2-3 days.



This poor quality service which comes at a very low price has finally
devalued the structural Engineers who in fact should have been one of the
main players in the whole process of the construction is just sidelined……


My suggestion is we need to have a legal binding association for
structural Engineer to practice. All individual structural engineers or
structural companies need to be registered with it to practice as a
structural Engineer/firm.


Then we can have a minimum fee structure based on certain guidelines, this
should also include the extent of service to be provided. In this way we
can regulate the field of structural engineers. It should also be binding
on individuals/architects/contractors to avail the services only from such
registered structural engineers.


Regards

Irshad Khan
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GURURAJA B
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Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:15 pm    Post subject: [Structural Engineering Consultancy Fees] Introductory Remarks Reply with quote

Its really retreat of concern to see the veterans feel the effect. But to the minute lowering senario i would like to add is attachment with architects.  We structural consultants have no haste to get money sacrificing our importance for a structure with an architect. Can we find a structural engineer who can give a project to an architect. Else we have started beliveing we get a project from an architect. The protocal in a project progress we do forget is itd the structural engineer and site engineers resposible for technical short comings and for best quality structures. Still we have failed in realising this and we for monitory gains have started being sub class of people under architects. This is how we have introduced to clients to gain projects at earliest. I believe before commenting on our fee we should have a clear professional recognision with clients (projects) based on its technical resposibility. Kindly structural engineers in associations should fix a standards so that a structural engineer is not borrowed by an architect. We need to have our own importance of not attaching ourselfs under architects.But an architect hires a structural engineer who is authorised with the structural forums. By paying a minimum fee fixed by all associations. Individual structural designers who tries to over cross this fee should be demoralised with some grading system in judiciary. So kindly lets put this  an all one opinion and bring a standard in judiciary as our BBMP recognised plan sanctioning registered engineers... We always suppuort all our senior engineers.  On Feb 15, 2016 9:06 PM, "irshad" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear All,

Quality of services provided is many a times related with the fees being
claimed/given for the structural engineering services. How can we expect
that a structural engineer who is charging as low as Re 1-2 per sq ft as
consultancy charges put in the required efforts in completing the work.
Result is poor quality of work where in multi-story buildings are completed
in one or two drawings within 2-3 days.



This poor quality service which comes at a very low price has finally
devalued the structural Engineers who in fact should have been one of the
main players in the whole process of the construction is just sidelined……


My suggestion is we need to have a legal binding association for
structural Engineer to practice. All individual structural engineers or
structural companies need to be registered with it to practice as a
structural Engineer/firm.


Then we can have a minimum fee structure based on certain guidelines, this
should also include the extent of service to be provided. In this way we
can regulate the field of structural engineers. It should also be binding
on individuals/architects/contractors to avail the services only from such
registered structural engineers.


Regards

Irshad Khan
     



     


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GURURAJA B
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:23 pm    Post subject: [Structural Engineering Consultancy Fees] Introductory Remarks Reply with quote

We need a regisyration with govt. To be a practicing structural engineer it is then we get a minimum fee fixed and authorit. Kindly think upon putting this in front of judiciary for our professional rights..  On Feb 15, 2016 9:41 PM, "raj guru" <rajguru26387@gmail.com (rajguru26387@gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Its really retreat of concern to see the veterans feel the effect. But to the minute lowering senario i would like to add is attachment with architects.  We structural consultants have no haste to get money sacrificing our importance for a structure with an architect. Can we find a structural engineer who can give a project to an architect. Else we have started beliveing we get a project from an architect. The protocal in a project progress we do forget is itd the structural engineer and site engineers resposible for technical short comings and for best quality structures. Still we have failed in realising this and we for monitory gains have started being sub class of people under architects. This is how we have introduced to clients to gain projects at earliest. I believe before commenting on our fee we should have a clear professional recognision with clients (projects) based on its technical resposibility. Kindly structural engineers in associations should fix a standards so that a structural engineer is not borrowed by an architect. We need to have our own importance of not attaching ourselfs under architects.But an architect hires a structural engineer who is authorised with the structural forums. By paying a minimum fee fixed by all associations. Individual structural designers who tries to over cross this fee should be demoralised with some grading system in judiciary. So kindly lets put this  an all one opinion and bring a standard in judiciary as our BBMP recognised plan sanctioning registered engineers... We always suppuort all our senior engineers.  On Feb 15, 2016 9:06 PM, "irshad" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear All,

Quality of services provided is many a times related with the fees being
claimed/given for the structural engineering services. How can we expect
that a structural engineer who is charging as low as Re 1-2 per sq ft as
consultancy charges put in the required efforts in completing the work.
Result is poor quality of work where in multi-story buildings are completed
in one or two drawings within 2-3 days.



This poor quality service which comes at a very low price has finally
devalued the structural Engineers who in fact should have been one of the
main players in the whole process of the construction is just sidelined……


My suggestion is we need to have a legal binding association for
structural Engineer to practice. All individual structural engineers or
structural companies need to be registered with it to practice as a
structural Engineer/firm.


Then we can have a minimum fee structure based on certain guidelines, this
should also include the extent of service to be provided. In this way we
can regulate the field of structural engineers. It should also be binding
on individuals/architects/contractors to avail the services only from such
registered structural engineers.


Regards

Irshad Khan
     



     



Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GURURAJA B
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:23 pm    Post subject: [Structural Engineering Consultancy Fees] Introductory Remarks Reply with quote

I can see an unregistered structural engineer under an architect providing many designs accross for private projects which needs a norm... On Feb 15, 2016 9:48 PM, "raj guru" <rajguru26387@gmail.com (rajguru26387@gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

We need a regisyration with govt. To be a practicing structural engineer it is then we get a minimum fee fixed and authorit. Kindly think upon putting this in front of judiciary for our professional rights..  On Feb 15, 2016 9:41 PM, "raj guru" <rajguru26387@gmail.com (rajguru26387@gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Its really retreat of concern to see the veterans feel the effect. But to the minute lowering senario i would like to add is attachment with architects.  We structural consultants have no haste to get money sacrificing our importance for a structure with an architect. Can we find a structural engineer who can give a project to an architect. Else we have started beliveing we get a project from an architect. The protocal in a project progress we do forget is itd the structural engineer and site engineers resposible for technical short comings and for best quality structures. Still we have failed in realising this and we for monitory gains have started being sub class of people under architects. This is how we have introduced to clients to gain projects at earliest. I believe before commenting on our fee we should have a clear professional recognision with clients (projects) based on its technical resposibility. Kindly structural engineers in associations should fix a standards so that a structural engineer is not borrowed by an architect. We need to have our own importance of not attaching ourselfs under architects.But an architect hires a structural engineer who is authorised with the structural forums. By paying a minimum fee fixed by all associations. Individual structural designers who tries to over cross this fee should be demoralised with some grading system in judiciary. So kindly lets put this  an all one opinion and bring a standard in judiciary as our BBMP recognised plan sanctioning registered engineers... We always suppuort all our senior engineers.  On Feb 15, 2016 9:06 PM, "irshad" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear All,

Quality of services provided is many a times related with the fees being
claimed/given for the structural engineering services. How can we expect
that a structural engineer who is charging as low as Re 1-2 per sq ft as
consultancy charges put in the required efforts in completing the work.
Result is poor quality of work where in multi-story buildings are completed
in one or two drawings within 2-3 days.



This poor quality service which comes at a very low price has finally
devalued the structural Engineers who in fact should have been one of the
main players in the whole process of the construction is just sidelined……


My suggestion is we need to have a legal binding association for
structural Engineer to practice. All individual structural engineers or
structural companies need to be registered with it to practice as a
structural Engineer/firm.


Then we can have a minimum fee structure based on certain guidelines, this
should also include the extent of service to be provided. In this way we
can regulate the field of structural engineers. It should also be binding
on individuals/architects/contractors to avail the services only from such
registered structural engineers.


Regards

Irshad Khan
     



     




Posted via Email
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