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[sangeeta_wij]

My dear Sefians
I don’t think we ever talk about it,but there’s a growing need to open this pandora’s box as I will be presenting a paper on Ethics in Structural Design, in a conference later this year. I have long felt the need to share some of the bitter/unpleasant experiences with some of the industry stake holders, who’ve been anything but ethical . I also request the reader’s to share their experience on the subject, without mentioning names of persons or of Projects.

The first instance that comes to my mind, is a structure where the Builder always boasted of a very low steel consumption and it became a habit to condone our designs because it was felt we were unable to match the other consultant’s magic figures of 4kg/sq ft for a 30+ storeyed structure. After a couple of such interactions, I challenged them and offered to review the ETABS/structural drawings free of cost ; to my horror, I found that the building, although existing in NCR, was not designed for a Zone IV earthquake, giving some stupid justification in DBR about Indian Codes being generally too conservative, and all the columns were built without ductile detailing.When this, and the other drawing/ detailing flaws were pointed out to their team, they simply shrugged it off with a smile and said that they knew this already as they has once hired a review consultant earlier too who had given a similar Report. In fact the building is a classic case of a Extreme soft storey and is a potential seismic hazard but is getting a beautiful façade and finishes. Now, I know for sure that they will be selling off the building premises without doing the necessary Retrofit and putting thousands of unsuspecting customers to risk. Do you think there is some place I can report this incognito? Well, I don’t think so but would like to hear from my industry friends .

Regards
Sangeeta Wij

Posted via Email

[VPandya]

[VPandya]

Dear Er. Sangeeta Wij,
I am a License Professional Engineer ( P.E.) in USA and my first responsibility is to PUBLIC -SAFETY. Attached are few pages from :

" Recommended Guidelines For The Practice Of Structural Engineering In California " is attached. Page-3, Section 2.2.5 says:

• " 2.2.5 : Refer deceit, misrepresentation , violation of contract, fraud, negligence, or incompetency of others to the Board of Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors ( Professional Licensing Agency in California, USA). An objective and unbiased approach to referring such acts to the Board Of Registration is important. "
• Per this Guideline we all need to report to INSTITUTION OF ENGINEERS INDIA or what ever Govt. agency responsible for putting end to this fraud. Show no mercy as this is a Public-Safety issue. Be firm in your Presentation. Gujarat BHUJ Earthquake of 2001 claimed 16, 000 lives , 1500 in Ahmedabad alone. I saw a lady with one hand lost (amputated)  in Ahmedabad in Bhuj Earthquake. She use to come to our Prayer Meetings. HAVE WE ALL FORGOTTEN RECENT DEVASTATING NEPAL EARTHQUAKE? Do we need more evidence then loss of lives in BHUJ Earthquake and Nepal Earthquake?
  
  Regards.
  
  Vasudeo Pandya P.E.
  Structural Engineer
  Subject: [SEFI] ethics in structural design and construction
  From: forum@sefindia.org
  Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 14:53:27 +0000
  To: general@sefindia.org
  
  
  
             My dear Sefians
  I don’t think we ever talk about it,but there’s a growing need to open this pandora’s box as I will be presenting a paper on Ethics in Structural Design, in a conference later this year. I have long felt the need to share some of the bitter/unpleasant experiences with some of the industry stake holders, who’ve been anything but ethical . I also request the reader’s to share their experience on the subject, without mentioning names of persons or of Projects.
  
  The first instance that comes to my mind, is a structure where the Builder always boasted of a very low steel consumption and it became a habit to condone our designs because it was felt we were unable to match the other consultant’s magic figures of 4kg/sq ft for a 30+ storeyed structure. After a couple of such interactions, I challenged them and offered to review the ETABS/structural drawings free of cost ; to my horror, I found that the building, although existing in NCR, was not designed for a Zone IV earthquake, giving some stupid justification in DBR about Indian Codes being generally too conservative, and all the columns were built without ductile detailing.When this, and the other drawing/ detailing flaws were pointed out to their team, they simply shrugged it off with a smile and said that they knew this already as they has once hired a review consultant earlier too who had given a similar Report. In fact the building is a classic case of a Extreme soft storey and is a potential seismic hazard but is getting a beautiful façade and finishes. Now, I know for sure that they will be selling off the building premises without doing the necessary Retrofit and putting thousands of unsuspecting customers to risk. Do you think there is some place I can report this incognito? Well, I don’t think so but would like to hear from my industry friends .
  
  Regards
  Sangeeta Wij
  
  Posted via Email
  
  

  ---

  Warning: Make sure you scan the downloaded attachment with updated antivirus tools  before opening them. They may contain viruses. Use online scanners here and here to upload downloaded attachment to check for safety.
  GUIDELINE FOR STRUCTURE ENGINNER.pdf
  Description:	Guidelines for practice of Structural Engineering.	Download
  Filename:	GUIDELINE FOR STRUCTURE ENGINNER.pdf
  Filesize:	1.43 MB
  Downloaded:	721 Time(s)

  ---

  
  
  Last edited by VPandya on Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:07 pm; edited 5 times in total

[bijoyav]

Dear Er. Sangeetha,

Does the loss of ethics in profession happens only is structural engineering? Everywhere it lost. Medical field, food, manufacturing..... What is happening?

A nation develop only if its citizens work together. Only nations with responsible citizens prosper.
Let us be more responsible.

Bijoy.

[plankonindia]

Dear Sefians,

This is the hard core fact as pointed out. The lives of innocent buildings occupiers is always at risk. We must not govern by the directions of the land shark builders who hardly think of structural part and mainly worried about elevations and others superficial treatments which help in sales.

Regards
Pradeep Kharbanda







-Original Message-

From: sangeeta_wij (forum@sefindia.org)
Date: 6/13/2016 8:24:38 PM
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] ethics in structural design and construction


My dear Sefians
I don’t think we ever talk about it,but there’s a growing need to open this pandora’s box as I will be presenting a paper on Ethics in Structural Design, in a conference later this year. I have long felt the need to share some of the bitter/unpleasant experiences with some of the industry stake holders, who’ve been anything but ethical . I also request the reader’s to share their experience on the subject, without mentioning names of persons or of Projects.

The first instance that comes to my mind, is a structure where the Builder always boasted of a very low steel consumption and it became a habit to condone our designs because it was felt we were unable to match the other consultant’s magic figures of 4kg/sq ft for a 30+ storeyed structure. After a couple of such interactions, I challenged them and offered to review the ETABS/structural drawings free of cost ; to my horror, I found that the building, although existing in NCR, was not designed for a Zone IV earthquake, giving some stupid justification in DBR about Indian Codes being generally too conservative, and all the columns were built without ductile detailing.When this, and the other drawing/ detailing flaws were pointed out to their team, they simply shrugged it off with a smile and said that they knew this already as they has once hired a review consultant earlier too who had given a similar Report. In fact the building is a classic case of a Extreme soft storey and is a potential seismic hazard but is getting a beautiful façade and finishes. Now, I know for sure that they will be selling off the building premises without doing the necessary Retrofit and putting thousands of unsuspecting customers to risk. Do you think there is some place I can report this incognito? Well, I don’t think so but would like to hear from my industry friends .

Regards
Sangeeta Wij








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Posted via Email

[SATYAPAUL]

Ms wij, i do agree with you.the builder always wants to prefer a designer,who suggests lesser steel.there is a  cut throat competition.no ethics work in this profession.the professionals are fighting like dogs.there  is no govt. approved agency for review for PRIVATE sector. government is sending their projects to IIT  for checking the structural designs. warm regards satya pal  On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 00:20:10 +0530 "sangeeta_wij"  wrote >                   My dear Sefians > I don’t think we ever talk about it,but there’s a growing need to open this pandora’s box as I will be  presenting a paper on Ethics in Structural Design, in a conference later this year. I have long felt  the need to share some of the bitter/unpleasant experiences with some of the industry stake holders,  who’ve been anything but ethical . I also request the reader’s to share their experience on the  subject, without mentioning names of persons or of Projects. >  > The first instance that comes to my mind, is a structure where the Builder always boasted of a very low  steel consumption and it became a habit to condone our designs because it was felt we were unable to  match the other consultant’s magic figures of 4kg/sq ft for a 30+ storeyed structure. After a couple of  such interactions, I challenged them and offered to review the ETABS/structural drawings free of cost ;  to my horror, I found that the building, although existing in NCR, was not designed for a Zone IV  earthquake, giving some stupid justification in DBR about Indian Codes being generally too  conservative, and all the columns were built without ductile detailing.When this, and the other  drawing/ detailing flaws were pointed out to their team, they simply shrugged it off with a smile and  said that they knew this already as they has once hired a review consultant earlier too who had given a  similar Report. In fact the building is a classic case of a Extreme soft storey and is a potential  seismic hazard but is getting a beautiful façade and finishes. Now, I know for sure that they will be  selling off the building premises without doing the necessary Retrofit and putting thousands of  unsuspecting customers to risk. Do you think there is some place I can report this incognito? Well, I  don’t think so but would like to hear from my industry friends . >  > Regards > Sangeeta Wij >       > >  >  > --

Posted via Email

[abhio]

Respected Er Sangeeta Madam,

While Pandya Sir has correctly stated the general principle, I would like to comment on your particular case. Our company refuses even to look at a drawing unless we are in some way or the other officially involved with the project so as to avoid landing in precisely this kind of situation.

Here you are in the uncomfortable position of knowing that something is seriously wrong with the project while not being able to force the stake holders to take action. This is a most challenging position, and there is no way in which you can get out of the situation without facing a lot of personal and professional difficulty. I would suggest that you write a letter to the stake holders (Architect, structural engineer and owner) stating that you have found serious deficiencies in their design and threaten to go public.

I fear that you will have to go public anyway, and this is also a very hard route. Your professional ability will be impugned and you will be accused of ulterior motives. You will be accused of defaming the builder/ architect for personal gain. You may even be physically threatened. Unfortunately, I can see no way of avoiding all these calamities. I can only assure you of my full support to help end the life threatening malpractices rampant in our profession.

Regards,

[sang35@rediffmail.com]

Hi Mam,  Nice that you have raised this point. I am in Atkins now and designing for Middle East and Atkins. The basic difference in the design is that Crack checks are very important in all the buildings and components which we do not do in India.  Crack checks increases the reinforcement and there are 2 calculations one is Flexural and other is Thermal. i.e why we face termite as well as seepage problems. It should be introduced in all the buildings not only water retaining structure.  In India we are always talking about costing, not about good design. A good designer is one who can design in 5 Kgs, may be that person may have missed out some of the good required checks, who is going to look into it once the building is sold out.  I am learning some of the good practices by them.  Regards  Sangeeta  On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 22:45:44 +0530 "sangeeta_wij"  wrote >                   My dear Sefians > I don’t think we ever talk about it,but there’s a growing need to open this pandora’s box as I will be presenting a paper on Ethics in Structural Design, in a conference later this year. I have long felt the need to share some of the bitter/unpleasant experiences with some of the industry stake holders, who’ve been anything but ethical . I also request the reader’s to share their experience on the subject, without mentioning names of persons or of Projects. >  > The first instance that comes to my mind, is a structure where the Builder always boasted of a very low steel consumption and it became a habit to condone our designs because it was felt we were unable to match the other consultant’s magic figures of 4kg/sq ft for a 30+ storeyed structure. After a couple of such interactions, I challenged them and offered to review the ETABS/structural drawings free of cost ; to my horror, I found that the building, although existing in NCR, was not designed for a Zone IV earthquake, giving some stupid justification in DBR about Indian Codes being generally too conservative, and all the columns were built without ductile detailing.When this, and the other drawing/ detailing flaws were pointed out to their team, they simply shrugged it off with a smile and said that they knew this already as they has once hired a review consultant earlier too who had given a similar Report. In fact the building is a classic case of a Extreme soft storey and is a potential seismic hazard but is getting a beautiful façade and finishes. Now, I know for sure that they will be selling off the building premises without doing the necessary Retrofit and putting thousands of unsuspecting customers to risk. Do you think there is some place I can report this incognito? Well, I don’t think so but would like to hear from my industry friends . >  > Regards > Sangeeta Wij >       > >  >  > --

Posted via Email

[noushadbin]

Appreciate the effort by Ms Sangeetha. This shall be considered seriously. From my experience, many of the design firms here in Kerala omits wind load, and the gives justification that WL shall be considered for structures with height greater than 10m and this rule is applied even for structures in coastal areas. 
Thanking you,

Noushad Bin Jamal | Structural Engineer
P: +91 4832 738708 | M: +91 96 33503377
E: nbj85online@gmail.com (nbj85online@gmail.com)






On 13 June 2016 at 20:23, sangeeta_wij <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[Arun Nadig]

Dear Ms. Wij

I endorse your observations totally. I have had similar experience where in the garb of “value engineering” a third party reviewer suggests completely unacceptable loading conditions, not mandated in the codes but using the excuse of conservative codes. As this results in cost savings, the client is swayed by these suggestions.

I am also distressed that the ability of a designer is based on steel consumption rather than innovative solutions, safety and codal compliance.

Arun Nadig

From: sangeeta_wij [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: 13 June 2016 20:23
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] ethics in structural design and construction



My dear Sefians
I don’t think we ever talk about it,but there’s a growing need to open this pandora’s box as I will be presenting a paper on Ethics in Structural Design, in a conference later this year. I have long felt the need to share some of the bitter/unpleasant experiences with some of the industry stake holders, who’ve been anything but ethical . I also request the reader’s to share their experience on the subject, without mentioning names of persons or of Projects.

The first instance that comes to my mind, is a structure where the Builder always boasted of a very low steel consumption and it became a habit to condone our designs because it was felt we were unable to match the other consultant’s magic figures of 4kg/sq ft for a 30+ storeyed structure. After a couple of such interactions, I challenged them and offered to review the ETABS/structural drawings free of cost ; to my horror, I found that the building, although existing in NCR, was not designed for a Zone IV earthquake, giving some stupid justification in DBR about Indian Codes being generally too conservative, and all the columns were built without ductile detailing.When this, and the other drawing/ detailing flaws were pointed out to their team, they simply shrugged it off with a smile and said that they knew this already as they has once hired a review consultant earlier too who had given a similar Report. In fact the building is a classic case of a Extreme soft storey and is a potential seismic hazard but is getting a beautiful façade and finishes. Now, I know for sure that they will be selling off the building premises without doing the necessary Retrofit and putting thousands of unsuspecting customers to risk. Do you think there is some place I can report this incognito? Well, I don’t think so but would like to hear from my industry friends .

Regards
Sangeeta Wij

Posted via Email