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Econf for RERA
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This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Thank Post    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> Econference on The Real Estate (Regulation and Development) Act, 2016 (RERA)
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suraj
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Econf for RERA-Design Engineer/Structural Engineer Reply with quote

If Engineer does only design, he is design engineer & not structural engineer
Engineering prosecuted at site is very much part of Structural Engineering.
Be Global & come out of lack of understanidng
sureshkochi wrote:
Hi all
Designer is responsible for the design for life.
But the responsibility is only for design and not for the structure. As far as the design satisfy codes and good engineering practice, it is okey. The design should pass a proof check.
But the designer can not stand at site full time and as such can not certify the construction. So for the safety and stability of a completed structure designer alone can not be responsible, there should be a construction engineer in charge certify the adherence of drawings
Suresh
Associated Structural Consultants
Kochi 17

ASC KOCHI 17

Quote:
On 20-May-2017, at 9:58 AM, abhio <forum> wrote:

clause


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IntPE(India)Suraj Singh FIE Civil
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SATYAPAUL
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:00 am    Post subject: Econf for RERA Reply with quote

All structural designer must cross check computer results.may be some thing has not been incorporated  when software was written. No software is substitute of designer's knowledge.A designer must make site  visit.his knowledge is not substitute for construction engineers at site.but two heads are better than  one.  On Mon, 29 May 2017 00:27:25 +0530 "suraj"  wrote >                   If Engineer does only design, he is design engineer & not structural engineer > Engineering prosecuted at site is very much part of Structural Engineering. > Be Global & come out of lack of understanidng >       sureshkochi wrote:                Hi all > Designer is responsible for the design for life.  > But the responsibility is only for design and not for the structure. As far as the design satisfy codes  and good engineering practice, it is okey. The design should pass a proof check. > But the designer can not stand at site full time and as such can not certify the construction. So for  the safety and stability of a completed structure designer alone can not be responsible, there should  be a construction engineer in charge certify the adherence of drawings  > Suresh > Associated Structural Consultants > Kochi 17 >  > ASC KOCHI 17 >  >       --auto removed--

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B.V.Harsoda
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:06 am    Post subject: Re: Econf for RERA-Design Engineer/Structural Engineer Reply with quote

Dear Er. Suraj Sir,

I am fully agree with you. Site involvement of Structural Engineer is must for perfect implementation of structural design for safe structures.

Regards,

Er. B. V. Harsoda

suraj wrote:
If Engineer does only design, he is design engineer & not structural engineer
Engineering prosecuted at site is very much part of Structural Engineering.
Be Global & come out of lack of understanidng
sureshkochi wrote:
Hi all
Designer is responsible for the design for life.
But the responsibility is only for design and not for the structure. As far as the design satisfy codes and good engineering practice, it is okey. The design should pass a proof check.
But the designer can not stand at site full time and as such can not certify the construction. So for the safety and stability of a completed structure designer alone can not be responsible, there should be a construction engineer in charge certify the adherence of drawings
Suresh
Associated Structural Consultants
Kochi 17

ASC KOCHI 17

Quote:
On 20-May-2017, at 9:58 AM, abhio <forum> wrote:

clause


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N. Prabhakar
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sefians,

I find that non-structural engineers and site engineers who actually do full-time supervision of work at site, want structural engineers who have carried out the structural design to get involved in site supervision also, even it may be a casual one, so that they can be made easily and conveniently a sole sacrificial lamb should a mishap occurs at site.  Very clever of them to think that way !!  Please beware of it.

N. Prabhakar
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ssfalcao
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject: Econf for RERA Reply with quote

@Suraj, rightly said.
Structural Engineer is much more than design


This has been the problem.





On May 29, 2017 12:27 AM, "suraj" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:[quote]            If Engineer does only design, he is design engineer & not structural engineer
Engineering prosecuted at site is very much part of Structural Engineering.
Be Global & come out of lack of understanidng
      sureshkochi wrote:                Hi all
Designer is responsible for the design for life.
But the responsibility is only for design and not for the structure. As far as the design satisfy codes and good engineering practice, it is okey. The design should pass a proof check.
But the designer can not stand at site full time and as such can not certify the construction. So for the safety and stability of a completed structure designer alone can not be responsible, there should be a construction engineer in charge certify the adherence of drawings
Suresh
Associated Structural Consultants
Kochi 17

ASC KOCHI 17


      --auto removed--

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sk_tata
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject: Econf for RERA Reply with quote

Dear Sir,


I have seen all messages daily but silent but yesterday seen few messages so replied.
As our observation, absolutely agreed minimum Site experience should be 5 year for structural engineer.
Knowledge of construction activities at every phase and he knows the construction sequence of each stage.

Purpose understand the problem at site level.

If you have design the steel as per load in Stadd / E tab software but some times vibrator needle not insert in the beam due to extra bar.
So that if understand the site situations then finally think on that matter.



With regards
Santosh Kr Sharma
Ashiana Housing Ltd.
Manager (Project Management)
B.E , M-Tech (Structure)
9540008612



From: "B.V.Harsoda" <forum@sefindia.org>
To: econf@sefindia.org
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 9:36:36 AM
Subject: [E-CONF] Re: Econf for RERA



           Dear Er. Suraj Sir,

I am fully agree with you. Site involvement of Structural is must for perfect implementation of structural design for safe structures.

Regards,
Er. B. V. Harsoda

      suraj wrote:                If Engineer does only design, he is design engineer & not structural engineer
Engineering prosecuted at site is very much part of Structural Engineering.
Be Global & come out of lack of understanidng
      sureshkochi wrote:                Hi all
Designer is responsible for the design for life.
But the responsibility is only for design and not for the structure. As far as the design satisfy codes and good engineering practice, it is okey. The design should pass a proof check.
But the designer can not stand at site full time and as such can not certify the construction. So for the safety and stability of a completed structure designer alone can not be responsible, there should be a construction engineer in charge certify the adherence of drawings
Suresh
Associated Structural Consultants
Kochi 17

ASC KOCHI 17

      --auto removed--

Posted via Email
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sangeeta_wij
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Posts: 51

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject: Econf for RERA Reply with quote

I agree completely with Suresh as many Structural Engineers do not wish/are not in a position to take responsibility of construction supervision; the idea is to make Authorities understand that design and construction are two different but equally important aspects of a safe construction and it’s perfectly acceptable to have two different agencies responsible for the same. They should be willing to accept two agencies signing the certificate—one for design and the other for construction supervision. Those of us who are willing to perform both the roles, may sign for both and I think it’s pointless to argue whether or not every structural engineer must take responsibility of construction supervision as the choice should rest with him.




Best Regards
Sangeeta Wij
Managing Partner
SD Engineering Consultants LLP
Vice President(North), Indian Association of Structural Engineers,
Fellow and Chartered Engineer, Institution of Engineers
H333 New Rajinder Nagar(Lower Ground Floor),
New Delhi-110060
Ph:9811776210;01145128530


From: B.V.Harsoda [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: 28 May 2017 20:07
To: econf@sefindia.org
Subject: [E-CONF] Re: Econf for RERA



Dear Er. Suraj Sir,

I am fully agree with you. Site involvement of Structural is must for perfect implementation of structural design for safe structures.

Regards,
Er. B. V. Harsoda
suraj wrote:
If Engineer does only design, he is design engineer & not structural engineer
Engineering prosecuted at site is very much part of Structural Engineering.
Be Global & come out of lack of understanidng
sureshkochi wrote:
Hi all
Designer is responsible for the design for life.
But the responsibility is only for design and not for the structure. As far as the design satisfy codes and good engineering practice, it is okey. The design should pass a proof check.
But the designer can not stand at site full time and as such can not certify the construction. So for the safety and stability of a completed structure designer alone can not be responsible, there should be a construction engineer in charge certify the adherence of drawings
Suresh
Associated Structural Consultants
Kochi 17

ASC KOCHI 17
--auto removed--

Posted via Email
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Manoharbs_eq
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject: Econf for RERA Reply with quote

I really don't understand why do we have no control over the actual structure construction.There are two types of design one is concept where a structural engineer is not responsible for, other one is actual design for practical purposes where the structural stability certificate is issued.
In the second senirio structural engineer must also be aware of the completed structure.


In such what is the confusion


On May 29, 2017 12:10 PM, "sangeeta_wij" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           I agree completely with Suresh as many Structural Engineers do not wish/are not in a position to take responsibility of construction supervision; the idea is to make Authorities understand that design and construction are two different but equally important aspects of a safe construction and it’s perfectly acceptable to have two different agencies responsible for the same. They should be willing to accept two agencies signing the certificate—one for design and the other for construction supervision. Those of us who are willing to perform both the roles, may sign for both and I think it’s pointless to argue whether or not every structural engineer must take responsibility of construction supervision as the choice should rest with him.




Best Regards
Sangeeta Wij
Managing Partner
SD Engineering Consultants LLP
Vice President(North), Indian Association of Structural Engineers,
Fellow and Chartered Engineer, Institution of Engineers
H333 New Rajinder Nagar(Lower Ground Floor),
New Delhi-110060
Ph:9811776210;01145128530


From: B.V.Harsoda [mailto:forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)]
Sent: 28 May 2017 20:07
To: econf@sefindia.org (econf@sefindia.org)
Subject: [E-CONF] Re: Econf for RERA



Dear Er. Suraj Sir,

I am fully agree with you. Site involvement of Structural is must for perfect implementation of structural design for safe structures.

Regards,
Er. B. V. Harsoda
suraj wrote:
If Engineer does only design, he is design engineer & not structural engineer
Engineering prosecuted at site is very much part of Structural Engineering.
Be Global & come out of lack of understanidng
sureshkochi wrote:
Hi all
Designer is responsible for the design for life.
But the responsibility is only for design and not for the structure. As far as the design satisfy codes and good engineering practice, it is okey. The design should pass a proof check.
But the designer can not stand at site full time and as such can not certify the construction. So for the safety and stability of a completed structure designer alone can not be responsible, there should be a construction engineer in charge certify the adherence of drawings
Suresh
Associated Structural Consultants
Kochi 17

ASC KOCHI 17
--auto removed--
     



     



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ssfalcao
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: Econf for RERA Reply with quote

I'm of the opinion only one certificate should be accepted.


Firm / individual, who cannot provide full service should NOT undertake the roles as described for Structural Engineer. These are quite serious matter and for very obvious reasons International Codes and Structural Engineering Governing Bodies identify one Structural Certificate.


For professional desiring to take Independent Practice.... I think the solution is pick up ALL the required skills, undergo training OR don't take up the job.


In most part of Europe, especially where I have worked, the Governing Bodies have a registered internship and then only civil/Structural Engineers start professional experience.
Some exceptional bright eng start individual practice faster than others.
But the Governing Bodies controls the capabilities of individual, it's not the PRICE that controls.


In India because there is no control.... Price matters.
This was OK in post Independence India!
It's now no longer the state.
Clients demand quality in process and product, we are a Vibrantly Growing India!


In the US it's the PE exam in every state....


With Professional Indemnity coming in action, I don't think insurance companies will be interested in insurance​ of half Project knowledge.


RERA, may be able to out this in place with the new insurance requirements.


My advice to professionals scale up it's not so difficult especially if ME in Structural Engineering is already obtained.


Those taking up ME chk the course matter and get all your learning in place.


SE is not just FEM, there is lots more
If we look internally there is lots of deficiencies even at FEM level, let's not try to be biased.


Let's get organized and move forward Strong!


I hope I'm not too harsh on some, but we have to get the basics right.


Regards
Sebastiao


On May 29, 2017 12:09 PM, "sangeeta_wij" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           I agree completely with Suresh as many Structural Engineers do not wish/are not in a position to take responsibility of construction supervision; the idea is to make Authorities understand that design and construction are two different but equally important aspects of a safe construction and it’s perfectly acceptable to have two different agencies responsible for the same. They should be willing to accept two agencies signing the certificate—one for design and the other for construction supervision. Those of us who are willing to perform both the roles, may sign for both and I think it’s pointless to argue whether or not every structural engineer must take responsibility of construction supervision as the choice should rest with him.




Best Regards
Sangeeta Wij
Managing Partner
SD Engineering Consultants LLP

Vice President(North), Indian Association of Structural Engineers,
Fellow and Chartered Engineer, Institution of Engineers
H333 New Rajinder Nagar(Lower Ground Floor),
New Delhi-110060
Ph:9811776210;01145128530



From: B.V.Harsoda [mailto:forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)]
Sent: 28 May 2017 20:07
To: econf@sefindia.org (econf@sefindia.org)
Subject: [E-CONF] Re: Econf for RERA




Dear Er. Suraj Sir,

I am fully agree with you. Site involvement of Structural is must for perfect implementation of structural design for safe structures.

Regards,
Er. B. V. Harsoda

suraj wrote:
If Engineer does only design, he is design engineer & not structural engineer
Engineering prosecuted at site is very much part of Structural Engineering.
Be Global & come out of lack of understanidng
sureshkochi wrote:
Hi all
Designer is responsible for the design for life.
But the responsibility is only for design and not for the structure. As far as the design satisfy codes and good engineering practice, it is okey. The design should pass a proof check.
But the designer can not stand at site full time and as such can not certify the construction. So for the safety and stability of a completed structure designer alone can not be responsible, there should be a construction engineer in charge certify the adherence of drawings
Suresh
Associated Structural Consultants
Kochi 17

ASC KOCHI 17

--auto removed--
     



     



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bcs123
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Econf for RERA Reply with quote

Madam
I am following this Econf for RERA for quite some time and the discussion on the role of structural Engineer which has taken predominance as was already in place from ages more so with the implementation of RERA, underlining the importance in Construction Engineering.

In this context I feel the structural designing and IS codes for structural design has to identify a new parameter called Quality of construction supervision which should be inversely proportion to the factor of safety of the design. To elaborate, it is the duty of structural designer/engineer and in his own interest to guage the degree of construction quality that is going to be achieved at site while designing the structure. For example it is a known fact that precast structural members attain a high degree of construction quality for the simple reason that the member is cast in controlled conditions where optimal vibration temperature during casting and curing is achieved. This is the same reason why we don’t do the casting of these members at site. Similarly we need to check the weather conditions, availability of skilled manpower, machinery, tools and plants at site to control the detrimental factors that may creep in, when the construction takes place at the site of work.

We need to grade the construction company by an autonomous body who will be entrusted with giving a grade which we can use it for the factor of safety in designing the structures.

This is my broad opinion on the designing vis-a-vis construction supervision to make our structural designing more scientific and durable.

The industry experts may pitch in for further discussions please.

Regards,
Chandrasekhar Bakkireddy,
Director (Technical)
Praneeth Group,
Hyderabad.
www.praneeth.com


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: sangeeta_wij (forum@sefindia.org)
Sent: 29 May 2017 12:09
To: econf@sefindia.org (econf@sefindia.org)
Subject: [E-CONF] Re: Econf for RERA


I agree completely with Suresh as many Structural Engineers do not wish/are not in a position to take responsibility of construction supervision; the idea is to make Authorities understand that design and construction are two different but equally important aspects of a safe construction and it’s perfectly acceptable to have two different agencies responsible for the same. They should be willing to accept two agencies signing the certificate—one for design and the other for construction supervision. Those of us who are willing to perform both the roles, may sign for both and I think it’s pointless to argue whether or not every structural engineer must take responsibility of construction supervision as the choice should rest with him.




Best Regards
Sangeeta Wij
Managing Partner
SD Engineering Consultants LLP
Vice President(North), Indian Association of Structural Engineers,
Fellow and Chartered Engineer, Institution of Engineers
H333 New Rajinder Nagar(Lower Ground Floor),
New Delhi-110060
Ph:9811776210;01145128530


From: B.V.Harsoda [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: 28 May 2017 20:07
To: econf@sefindia.org (econf@sefindia.org)
Subject: [E-CONF] Re: Econf for RERA



Dear Er. Suraj Sir,

I am fully agree with you. Site involvement of Structural is must for perfect implementation of structural design for safe structures.

Regards,
Er. B. V. Harsoda
suraj wrote:
If Engineer does only design, he is design engineer & not structural engineer
Engineering prosecuted at site is very much part of Structural Engineering.
Be Global & come out of lack of understanidng
sureshkochi wrote:
Hi all
Designer is responsible for the design for life.
But the responsibility is only for design and not for the structure. As far as the design satisfy codes and good engineering practice, it is okey. The design should pass a proof check.
But the designer can not stand at site full time and as such can not certify the construction. So for the safety and stability of a completed structure designer alone can not be responsible, there should be a construction engineer in charge certify the adherence of drawings
Suresh
Associated Structural Consultants
Kochi 17

ASC KOCHI 17
--auto removed--

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