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alpa_sheth ...
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 281
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:22 pm Post subject: Licensing and Registration of Structural Engineers |
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Dear All,
Greetings! I am delighted to be participating in the Econference on 'REQUIREMENTS FOR STRUCTURAL DESIGN AND PROOF CHECKING CONSULTANCY SERVICES FOR STRUCTURES - Doc. No.: SSD II/06(19914)'.
I would like to open a new thread on 'Licensing and Registration of Structural Engineers'. Based on my reading of the document under reference, there is no mention of registration of structural engineers. It would be interesting to understand the mechanism that has been thought about to fix accountability of structural engineers (PDC and PC). Without a registration system, it is not possible to de-register a person for any proven negligence or lapse of services.
It may be pertinent to remember that most developed countries and many developing countries (even Uganda!) have a licensing system for structural engineers. Absence of a Register of licensed structural engineers will ensure that any possibility of mobility of structural engineering services from India across the world will remain a distant dream. This runs counter to the nation’s attempt to be global players in all fields.
Cities such as Mumbai, Pune, Nasik, Thane, Kolkata, Ahmedabad, Baroda and so on presently have a licensing system for structural engineers. Brihan Mumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC) for example has numerous license grades and an established protocol for granting license and upgradation of the license to the next level. The Municipal Corporation of Mumbai has laid out the minimum grade of structural engineer authorised to sign as the Structural engineer on record for a particular type of project, which projects need Peer Review, qualifications of peer reviewer and which projects need to go through a higher scrutiny of an Engineering Review Panel (currently known as the Highrise Committee).
How would this document, if implemented, deal with the existing systems in some parts of the country? Would Mumbai for example, do away with its Licensing of Structural Engineers and allow any structural engineer who fits the qualifications laid out in the document to sign structures?
I will be coordinating this thread of discussions and would love to hear your thoughts on the matter.
Warm regards,
Alpa Sheth
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vikram.jeet General Sponsor
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 3839
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Liscencing system is a must , but it must be uniform in the Country.
Consultants / Experts practcing design work , must be categorised as discussed herein below : ( categorization is necessary to know capability of a Consultant based on his Qualifications and design experience , resources with him in form of tech manpower, software s etc)
Class A Consultant : Consultant with full fledged design office , hardwares , softwares, ample Design engineers at various levels , track record good
Class B Consultant : Consultant with limited manpower of design engineers , having CAD facilities but running design office , track record good
Class C Consultant : A one man full time expert with CAD facilities , drafting personnel full time/ part time , track record good
Class D Consultant : A one man experienced Structural expert / Retired Str Er with no CaD expertise , can act as PDC for small works like Bldgs upto two storeys ,boundary walls , etc
CONSULTANT SPECIAL CLASS : All Structural design Consulting Professors of IIT's , Govt Engg Institutes who have experience of PC on some selected type of structures of their specialisation
Regarding Qualifications and experience pl refer Posting under QUALIFICATIONS AND Experience of PDC & PC for above categories
Last edited by vikram.jeet on Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:08 am; edited 4 times in total |
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er_jna SEFI Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2022 Posts: 7
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:00 am Post subject: |
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Agreed that the licensing is necessary. However, the record of authorized professionals needs to be maintained by the approving authority - this is being done at several places in India. So in a way it is in place - it may need to be improved to have continued evaluation, maybe based on some intermittent exams and/or record of work done, say every 3years.
Clause 9 of the draft code elaborates about the resource with the PDC and PC. Table 1 classifies the qualifications based on height and type of structure - this essentially covers all structures. Cl. 9.2.1 also allows the Owner to have additional qualifications for PDC and PC.
It might be worthwhile to recommend to the working group of the draft code to examine the structure of qualifications required by at least a few the approving authorities across the country.
Jaswant N. Arlekar |
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alpa_sheth ...
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 281
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Yes.
Register of Licensed Engineers is maintained in some cities (Mumbai, Pune, Kolkata etc.) but not in all. I do not think for example UP, Haryana have such a register in place for any city including NOIDA or Gurugram.
The document under discussion also does not suggest the creation of a register. So how has the document drafting group envisaged the regulation of the Practice of structural engineering by PDC/PC?
A document laying out qualifications (reservations about those may be discussed in relevant thread) without an implementation system or a methodology for regulation would not be very effective, no?
Let me share my experience at Gurugram recently. The authorities rejected my structural engineer's certification since I was not "qualified". And why was I not qualified? Because my Master's Degree said Civil Engineering, not Structural Engineering. The liaising architect tried to explain that the particular US university gave only Civil Engineering degree and did not mention structural engineering in the Master's Degree certificate unlike Indian universities and also submitted the Mumbai structural engineering license, but to no avail. I then called the the concerned person at Gurugram authority and to his credit he entertained my call and engaged in a long conversation. I enquired that I had just completed a large project in Gurugram where I was accepted as the structural engineer on record, why not now? I was informed that they had become more strict since the Chintel towers partial collapse in Gurugram.
I was finally able to resolve the issue but it left me thinking, if Gurugram simply had a licensing system like Mumbai I would not have had to go through this ordeal. I can understand (but may not agree) if the concerned designer's license was suspended (had there been a licensing system) until completion of collapse enquiry, but I cannot understand subjecting the entire community to such hardship for want of any system in Gurugram.
best regards,
Alpa |
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er_jna SEFI Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2022 Posts: 7
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:13 am Post subject: |
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With that token all PG degrees of IIT Kanpur (and other old IITs) are not acceptable!
But the draft in Table 1 does say "... degree with major in structural engineering...".
Also, should and (or can) this code recommend/prescribed a creation of Record of Licenced Engineers?
Thank you,
Jaswant N. Arlekar |
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va E-Conference Moderator
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 91
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Dear All,
It is necessary to maintain licensing registration of Structural Engineers at State or National Level. Question is who will do it and what is the mechanism to check the credentials and experience in various domains?
As Vikram jeet has suggested to have five categories of registration based on competence.
Some guideline on this aspect will be required in the code.
Hemant Vadalkar
Consulting Engineer , Mumbai. |
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alpa_sheth ...
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 281
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Important point raised by Er Vadalkar.
I think the authorities could consider state-wide licenses for a start.
I think that is the case in US too. If you have a Texas Structural engineering license for example, you only need to take one (or two) more exam(s), esp. for earthquake engineering, to get the California State license.
I think Indian states too can think on those lines. A license from a more developed state or city should easily enable obtaining a structural engineering license from another state.
This is analogous to visas too. If you have a valid US visa, it is easy to get visas for most other countries as it is believed that US visa is a difficult one to obtain.
best regards,
Alpa |
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er_jna SEFI Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2022 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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What about using IEI registration? As pointed out in another thread by 'Dharmendu007' (link), IEI also has a mechanism for granting International PE - an exam-based qualification.
But IEI registration is based on qualification, experience and endorsement from existing member, and does not have the continued development
How about IEI registration as a basic requirement, and after that the state (or local municipality) should maintain the continuing development requirement? Mumbai has only fee-based renewal - there is no component of showing continued development.
alpa_sheth wrote: | Important point raised by Er Vadalkar.
I think the authorities could consider state-wide licenses for a start.
I think that is the case in US too. If you have a Texas Structural engineering license for example, you only need to take one (or two) more exam(s), esp. for earthquake engineering, to get the California State license.
I think Indian states too can think on those lines. A license from a more developed state or city should easily enable obtaining a structural engineering license from another state.
This is analogous to visas too. If you have a valid US visa, it is easy to get visas for most other countries as it is believed that US visa is a difficult one to obtain.
best regards,
Alpa
va wrote: | Dear All,
It is necessary to maintain licensing registration of Structural Engineers at State or National Level. Question is who will do it and what is the mechanism to check the credentials and experience in various domains?
As Vikram jeet has suggested to have five categories of registration based on competence.
Some guideline on this aspect will be required in the code.
Hemant Vadalkar
Consulting Engineer , Mumbai. |
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sagarsd004 SEFI Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2012 Posts: 1
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:30 pm Post subject: Licensing and Registration of Structural Engineers |
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Dear Alpa Madam,
In my opinion there should be only 1 license valid throughout the country. One Nation One License. People in the code committee can add criteria for the same in national building code which will then mandatory for all the states. You have already added criteria for review committee members for code exceeding buildings in the Tall Building Code. Can't we have similar criteria added in the National Building code for License to practice Structural engineering?
Thanks and Regards,
Sagar Dhamdhere |
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badamsundararao ...
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 Posts: 218 Location: KAKINADA ANDHRA PRADESH
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 5:30 pm Post subject: Licensing and Registration of Structural Engineers |
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Dear sir,
Without an Engineers bill any attempt is a waste. No controls. The Parliament should work on it during this Winter session to increase the efficacy of this Code. Without this,nothing can be controlled.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 9:07 PM sagarsd004 <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
[quote] Dear Alpa Madam,
In my opinion there should be only 1 license valid throughout the country. One Nation One License. People in the code committee can add criteria for the same in national building code which will then mandatory for all the states. You have already added criteria for review committee members for code exceeding buildings in the Tall Building Code. Can't we have similar criteria added in the National Building code for License to practice Structural engineering?
Thanks and Regards,
Sagar Dhamdhere
On Thu, Sep 1, 2022, 5:36 PM alpa_sheth forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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