www.sefindia.org

[vikram.jeet]

Peer review  :

This can not be treated as proof checking . Just a broad review on design philosophy may not fulfill the requirements of second check on design/ drgs .
There is no indepth involvement / association with design work.  It is just like a commentators role without any responsibility.  Hence ,the peer review may not be categorised as PC  and role of full fledged Reviewer I.e PC needs to be retained.

Peer review  needs to be treated as  further additional to (PDC + PC)  arrangement , if owner / Govt decide to seek  on highly specialized structural works.

[bijoyav]

It should not to be experience only. As ISE, UK etc does, there should be testing authority. One should appear for the test, does it, convince the testing authority, clear their doubt, before awarding professional structural engineer certificate.

Government should formulate an authority, methodology for it….


Er Bijoy

Sent from my iPhone

[Dharmendu007]

Dear and Respected All,
I totally agree with what Alpa Ma'am said in the trailing mail. We may in this regard follow what other countries are doing. The Professional Engineer system followed by many countries should be perfect for the problem of setting and maintaining qualification criteria for licensed engineers. We already have a few systems in place, though not widely followed, the Professional Engineer or International Professional Engineer licence by Institute of Engineers India or any other similar body is just in line with the requirement.

• The Int PE entitlement is provided after the candidate passes the INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS ASSESSMENT EXAMINATION which includes design, construction, legal, environmental aspect etc.
• 
  
• Once certified he/she needs to maintain Continuous Professional Development (CPD) to renew his/her at a certain interval.

So, the system is pretty much in line with the requirement and also with what other countries are doing in an already tested environment. So, without reinventing the wheel, our own system can be adopted with a few modifications if necessary, maybe in the syllabus etc. Institute of Engineers India or Indian Association of Structural Engineers or any other institute can be consulted. Certainly the assessment system and maintaining the CPD is the very backbone of the process.



Regards,
Dharmendu Mandal

Contact No.: +91-9874156418

PG Please consider our environment before printing this e-mail. |7 Switch off as you go |q Recycle always













On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 9:15 AM alpa_sheth <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[CH. VIDYASAGAR]

In my opinion, Degree(s)  alone does not qualify to be structural engineer,   there should be  proper qualification test ... Usage of engineering softwares could be one of the criteria to provide  economical solutions...



On Wed, 31 Aug 2022, 09:18 alpa_sheth, <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[vikram.jeet]

Very nicely said by Sri Solanki.

Qualifications always broadens the thinking domain and Mtech , PhD  structures  generally lead the structures design Consultancy firms.

But in India , with opening of computer /IT sectors providing hefty packages even to freshers , Students are not opting to sectors having Pilgrim 's progress in terms of remuneration s  and Civil engg , especially str engg is worst affected. There is going to be shortage of quality str ers in a decade or so. Hence putting embargo on design Qualifications may create further drought of Structural engineers.

As everyone who is engaged in str work know , how much painstaking  , responsible job they are dealing with demanding time lines. And Engineers of structures gain maturity in profession after working for a nos yrs under some sincere mentors / Consultancy .

Therefore Minimum Qualifications  of Btech with higher design exp   and Mtech with less exp is generally fit in present scenario and may be retained  in this Code.

Yesteryear designers were  mostly Btech , spending whole career in design  as in our times very few used to pursue  Mtech . All Consultancy firms like  Gammons / GILCON , STUP , MRC , TCPL , etc were recruiting Btech as designers.  But higher qualification is always an added asset .

Firms always have a mix of Qualifications and experience , PhD  , Mtech , Btech and even BE thru AMIE  for design work , Diploma holders for  drafting,  quantity estimation ..

Since Mtech engineers are also in firm , there seems no issue regarding FEM , Str dynamics and other advanced workings . With softwares availability Btech ers are also competent to carry advanced analyses after experience.


Hope it may help

[pvgraju]

Dear Sir,

1) Regarding experience clause : In this i feel level of understanding the subject is important along with theory and practical knowledge.
This clause should not hinder engineers from changing their filed. Example from buildings to bridges, oil and gas, high rise buildings etc.

2) Responsibility of PDC,PMC : This clause says both are equally responsible. By this PDC can easily escape from his responsibility and put total load on PMC.
Another calause says that drawings only need to be submitted. Calculations, Analysis files not required. This will prolong approval process, since both PDC,PMC need to do total design.
Another clause says if PMC observes any discrepancy it is to be discussed with PDC. But when PDC is sharing only drawings without calculations how PMC will share its technology with PDC.

Regards,

P.V.Gavarraju.

[er_jna]

Experience of PDC and PC
A very nice analogy pointed out by 'bhsolanki' where the medical professional is only allowed to operated only if he/she has the required specialized degree.

There are 2 models being proposed by 'bhsolanki' and 'vikram.jeet'.
'bhsolanki' has an interesting proposal for the PDC to have experience of having his/her design(s) proof checked.
I like this suggestion - this can be used as a basis for saying that the design of the PDC has been validated.

'vikram.jeet' is proposing to have degree with design work experience (not years after degree).
The counting of actual design experience and not from the qualifying year is good, but how to establish it? It may be similar to endorsement from the supervisor (similar to that being currently employed by IEI for membership, and BMC for structural license).

'vikram.jeet' has also proposed another model considering the type/size of the structure.

Maintenance of Qualification
Is it sufficient to qualify as per the requirement, or does the PDC/PC need to be up to date with some form of continuing development?

'bijoyav' has suggested conducting tests at regular intervals.
This can be implemented.
Maybe as a formal interaction with the licensing authority (state or municipality), like an interview or presentation of the projects designed in the recent past.
Based on how it works, it may be extended into a test.

'Dharmendu007' has  pointed out that this model is already available with IEI under the International PE certification.
Does this have to be spelled out in this code?
Why not let the licensing authority take care of the validity of qualification?

[alpa_sheth]

Hi,

To extend the analogy of the medical professional,following a directive by the Medical Council of India a few years ago, all  state medical councils have  made it mandatory for doctors to a) renew their license and b) collecta minimum number of  credit points (say 30) to be eligible forrenewal of license. These have to be earned by attending workshops and seminarsas part of the continuing medical education (CME) program.
All  doctors  have to re-register -eventhose who have relocated to other states and foreign countries.<o:p></o:p>
On similar lines, I think for PDC and PC a licensing system should be introduced based on  some qualifying exam/test/viva  besides academic qualification and experience. Additionally  renewal of the license every 3-5 years (In Mumbai it is annually)  should be based on attending courses/seminars/conferences to stay updated.

regards,
Alpa

[VPandya]

Ers. Alpaji , Vikram Jeet and Er. Vadalkar,

On one project I was checking Design in India,  I came across a unique  problem  :

DESIGN ENGIEER  WAS  NOT TRAINED IN USING  " PLATE AND SHELL FINITE ELEMENTS " FOR COCRETE RAFT FOUNDATION . HE ONLY USED BEAM ELEMENTS ( ONE WAY ELEMENTS ) . I ENDED UP REDOING ENTIRE RAFT FOUNDATION USING STAAD  PLATE  AND SHELL ELEMENTS . HE TOLD ME THERE WAS NO IN HIS TEAM WHO CAN USE TWO WAY PLATE SHELL ELEMENTS .

This  type of ptroblems comes under the  title :

INEXPERIENCE OR INCOMPETENT ENGINEERS DOING THE BASIC DESIGN.

Something need to be done for such issues .

Regards.

Vasudeo Pandya  P.E.
Sructural Engineers  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[vikram.jeet]

Definitely, I think the need of present times is to have the team Leader in charge  to be Mtech as  PDC & PC as echoed by  eminent members. But he can have designers with Btech to support . As  already stated in previous post on this topic , there is  going to be drought in field of Structural engg. due to many fast paying fields  .I have seen Mtech strs , shifting to IT sectors .

Still in India , so far , B tech Engineers with experience have run the show successfully  and with softwares , problems of advanced analyses is never a problem , but yes an engineer engaged in design must  acknowledge the need for  advanced working try to seek  it  during practical designing in design office .