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Campaign 1897
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prof.arc
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...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 703

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:34 am    Post subject: Campaign 1897 Reply with quote

From Prof. ARC to all Sefians:

Prof. SK Jain's article brings out the fact that even though we have
confidence in building earthquake resistant structures, in practice, we have
problems of implementation due to a variety of factors as listed by him.
Quite a few of us are frustrated that the stark lessons are not having
effect on authorities. Mr. I. Barua has pointed out the hypocrisy of
appointing committees in NE India and not following it up.

Should we loose heart and talk about it only among engineering groups which
have no teeth. I have tried IE(I), INAE, etc., without any success. I am
thinking of a new strategy which may work and wish to have your comments.

1. There is no use of proposing a solution which requires too much funding
[it will be discarded straightaway] or a solution which is meant for common
man [who has a very low priority for administrators].
2. The proposal should not target several regions but say only one, to start
with which has highest risk.
3. We should realise and accept that there will still be enormous damages.
4. There is apparently lot of funds available for disaster relief - India
even gives now a fair proportion to other countries also. The relief, though
supposed to be for humanitarian purposes, is a big business now. We want a
small pie out of that bottomless source.

Keeping the above in view, we should identify the region of highest risk.
The epicentral region of mega events of 1897 tops my list. Also, we have a
major city, Guwahati and a mighty river in that region.

[I came to know of an interesting term - FIRST RESPONDERS - during my recent
long stay in USA and reading and viewing the recent mega disasters]

I will like to define first responders as below and approach them [actually
frighten them] about the need of their safety in order to manage a disaster.
[ in the cover of our book, there is a picture of a building of a Judge,
before and after the 1934 earthquake - there must be equally more dramatic
pictures available with some of you]

a. The Governors of Assam & Meghalaya.
b. The Chief Ministers of these two States.
c. The Defence Brass in that region who will be in charge for first
response.
d. The Chief Secretaries.
e. The Major Hospitals and the Doctors.
f. Chief Engineers
g. IIT- Guwahati !!!

I feel there is a reasonable chance of starting the awareness of not having
complete collapse and taking remedial action to their offices as well as
residences, if the first responders react to our campaign.

We must actively enlist the media in our effort.

I request Mr. I Barua to take the lead in this campaign. A number of us can
provide resource material.
Prof. SKJ should energise IIT-Guwahati to play an important role in this
campaign.

I propose that we discuss the earthquake intensity level in 1897 region. It
has to be more than that in Zone V of IS:1893-2002

Awaiting your first response !

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prao5555
Progressive Member
Progressive Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:56 pm    Post subject: Campaign 1897 Reply with quote

Dear Prof. ARC,

it is heartening to note your determination to
campaign for seismic resistant structures, and for
facing the next possible disaster in India.  The
frequency of disasters seems to increase very year,
particularly earthquake disasters.  The earthquake in
Japan the other day is perhaps not just one more of
them.

I am inclined to agree with you that earthquakes of
intensity more than that defined for zone V may be
possible in the NE regions.  It may help to reduce the
reduction factor from 5 to 3 in such cases even for
SMRF.

Regards,

P Rao
Uni College of Engineering
Hyderabad

one click.

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ibarua
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:39 am    Post subject: Campaign 1897 Reply with quote

17 November 2005

Improving construction practices will perhaps be of more help in obtaining eq. resistant structures. For this, the only answers are training and education; there can never be enough of these. Our arhitects, engineers and draftsmen not only have to know how to design eq. resistant structures, but also have to know how to detail their drawings adequately so that the architects, engineers and artisans in the field can translate these drawings into truly quake resistant structures.

For this purpose, the IITs and the other engineering colleges should organise workshops, starting with proper designing and detailing of those vital elements called columns, shear walls and bracing systems.

Similarly those in the field can be trained to manage and implement quality assurance programmes.

Any suggestions from SEFI?

Indrajit Barua.
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 prao5555[AT]yah... wrote :
Quote:
Dear Prof. ARC,

it is heartening to note your determination to
campaign for seismic resistant structures, and for
facing the next possible disaster in India.  The
frequency of disasters seems to increase very year,
particularly earthquake disasters.  The earthquake in
Japan the other day is perhaps not just one more of
them.

I am inclined to agree with you that earthquakes of
intensity more than that defined for zone V may be
possible in the NE regions.  It may help to reduce the
reduction factor from 5 to 3 in such cases even for
SMRF.

Regards,

P Rao
Uni College of Engineering
Hyderabad

one
click.


Posted via Email
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ibarua
General Sponsor
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 1039

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:44 am    Post subject: Campaign 1897 Reply with quote

17 November 2005

Dear Sefians all,

My first response is that I'm ready for action.

Let's prepare an action programme for educating the people mentioned by Prof. ARC about the importance of the subject (I hope they have the time to hear us).

Indrajit Barua.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 prof.arc[AT]gma... wrote :
Quote:
From Prof. ARC to all Sefians:

Prof. SK Jain's article brings out the fact that even
though we have
confidence in building earthquake resistant structures,
in practice, we have
problems of implementation due to a variety of factors
as listed by him.
Quite a few of us are frustrated that the stark lessons
are not having
effect on authorities. Mr. I. Barua has pointed out the
hypocrisy of
appointing committees in NE India and not following it
up.

Should we loose heart and talk about it only among
engineering groups which
have no teeth. I have tried IE(I), INAE, etc., without
any success. I am
thinking of a new strategy which may work and wish to
have your comments.

1. There is no use of proposing a solution which
requires too much funding
[it will be discarded straightaway] or a solution which
is meant for common
man [who has a very low priority for administrators].
2. The proposal should not target several regions but
say only one, to start
with which has highest risk.
3. We should realise and accept that there will still
be enormous damages.
4. There is apparently lot of funds available for
disaster relief - India
even gives now a fair proportion to other countries
also. The relief, though
supposed to be for humanitarian purposes, is a big
business now. We want a
small pie out of that bottomless source.

Keeping the above in view, we should identify the
region of highest risk.
The epicentral region of mega events of 1897 tops my
list. Also, we have a
major city, Guwahati and a mighty river in that region.

[I came to know of an interesting term - FIRST
RESPONDERS - during my recent
long stay in USA and reading and viewing the recent
mega disasters]

I will like to define first responders as below and
approach them [actually
frighten them] about the need of their safety in order
to manage a disaster.
[ in the cover of our book, there is a picture of a
building of a Judge,
before and after the 1934 earthquake - there must be
equally more dramatic
pictures available with some of you]

a. The Governors of Assam & Meghalaya.
b. The Chief Ministers of these two States.
c. The Defence Brass in that region who will be in
charge for first
response.
d. The Chief Secretaries.
e. The Major Hospitals and the Doctors.
f. Chief Engineers
g. IIT- Guwahati !!!

I feel there is a reasonable chance of starting the
awareness of not having
complete collapse and taking remedial action to their
offices as well as
residences, if the first responders react to our
campaign.

We must actively enlist the media in our effort.

I request Mr. I Barua to take the lead in this
campaign. A number of us can
provide resource material.
Prof. SKJ should energise IIT-Guwahati to play an
important role in this
campaign.

I propose that we discuss the earthquake intensity
level in 1897 region. It
has to be more than that in Zone V of IS:1893-2002

Awaiting your first response !


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skjain.iitk
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:44 am    Post subject: Campaign 1897 Reply with quote

Dear Prof ARC and Mr Barua:

The suggestion to focus on Guwahati is most welcome. I am sure that no
SEFI member will stay behind in contributing what they can. I have the
following thoughts:

a) It is a huge prblem and cannot be solved in one day. Let us start
small keeping in mind our limited resources both in terms of manpower
and financial and focus on what we can achieve by our own efforts.
b) Telling others what to do, does not usually work. On the other hand
if some activity is started by the champions, others usually join.
c) While I am reasonably confident that our colleagues at IITG will be
happy to assist (I can talk to them), I am not in favour of telling them
to organize events and workshops. Someone like Mr Barua can proceed with
organizing a small  or moderate event with whatever support is available
to him, and we can ask IITG and others to come forward and contribute.

From NICEE, we will be happy to support any efforts in Guwahati in
terms of literature and materials etc.

Best regards,

Sudhir Jain
IIT Kanpur

ibarua[AT]deg... wrote:

Quote:
17 November 2005

Improving construction practices will perhaps be of more help in obtaining eq. resistant structures. For this, the only answers are training and education; there can never be enough of these. Our arhitects, engineers and draftsmen not only have to know how to design eq. resistant structures, but also have to know how to detail their drawings adequately so that the architects, engineers and artisans in the field can translate these drawings into truly quake resistant structures.

For this purpose, the IITs and the other engineering colleges should organise workshops, starting with proper designing and detailing of those vital elements called columns, shear walls and bracing systems.

Similarly those in the field can be trained to manage and implement quality assurance programmes.

Any suggestions from SEFI?

Indrajit Barua.
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 prao5555[AT]yah... wrote :

Quote:
Dear Prof. ARC,

it is heartening to note your determination to
campaign for seismic resistant structures, and for
facing the next possible disaster in India.  The
frequency of disasters seems to increase very year,
particularly earthquake disasters.  The earthquake in
Japan the other day is perhaps not just one more of
them.

I am inclined to agree with you that earthquakes of
intensity more than that defined for zone V may be
possible in the NE regions.  It may help to reduce the
reduction factor from 5 to 3 in such cases even for
SMRF.

Regards,

P Rao
Uni College of Engineering
Hyderabad

one
click.



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sdec.in
Silver Sponsor
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 473

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:17 am    Post subject: Campaign 1897 Reply with quote

I think what Dr Jain has said makes a lot of sense..let's make a beginning
by starting a chain or sequence of events which will pick up momentum  with
time..however it will definitely help to involve the local PWD, and IITG and
any local NGO involved in post-disaster relief/ rehabilitation work etc or
any local engineering/ architecture association or even the local
corporation members just to generate a preliminary level interest and
awareness. It will be good if the local govt hospital/ school buildings can
be studied( an EQ analysis carried out to study the gap betwn existing and
desired Moment capacities wrt MCE lvl EQ) and case studies presented to the
audience....this will give an insight on the post disaster rehab
possibilities...just to make a beginning
regards
all of us sefians will be glad to pool in whatever help is necessary ...
regards
sangeeta wij
----- Original Message -----
Message From  <skjain[AT]iit...>
To: <sdec[AT]bol...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: Campaign 1897

Quote:
Dear Prof ARC and Mr Barua:

The suggestion to focus on Guwahati is most welcome. I am sure that no
SEFI member will stay behind in contributing what they can. I have the
following thoughts:

a) It is a huge prblem and cannot be solved in one day. Let us start
small keeping in mind our limited resources both in terms of manpower
and financial and focus on what we can achieve by our own efforts.
b) Telling others what to do, does not usually work. On the other hand
if some activity is started by the champions, others usually join.
c) While I am reasonably confident that our colleagues at IITG will be
happy to assist (I can talk to them), I am not in favour of telling them
to organize events and workshops. Someone like Mr Barua can proceed with
organizing a small  or moderate event with whatever support is available
to him, and we can ask IITG and others to come forward and contribute.

From NICEE, we will be happy to support any efforts in Guwahati in
terms of literature and materials etc.

Best regards,

Sudhir Jain
IIT Kanpur

ibarua[AT]deg... wrote:

Quote:
17 November 2005

Improving construction practices will perhaps be of more help in obtaining
eq. resistant structures. For this, the only answers are training and
education; there can never be enough of these. Our arhitects, engineers
and draftsmen not only have to know how to design eq. resistant
structures, but also have to know how to detail their drawings adequately
so that the architects, engineers and artisans in the field can translate
these drawings into truly quake resistant structures.

For this purpose, the IITs and the other engineering colleges should
organise workshops, starting with proper designing and detailing of those
vital elements called columns, shear walls and bracing systems.

Similarly those in the field can be trained to manage and implement
quality assurance programmes.

Any suggestions from SEFI?

Indrajit Barua.
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 prao5555[AT]yah... wrote :

Quote:
Dear Prof. ARC,

it is heartening to note your determination to
campaign for seismic resistant structures, and for
facing the next possible disaster in India.  The
frequency of disasters seems to increase very year,
particularly earthquake disasters.  The earthquake in
Japan the other day is perhaps not just one more of
them.

I am inclined to agree with you that earthquakes of
intensity more than that defined for zone V may be
possible in the NE regions.  It may help to reduce the
reduction factor from 5 to 3 in such cases even for
SMRF.

Regards,

P Rao
Uni College of Engineering
Hyderabad

one
click.




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ibarua
General Sponsor
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 1039

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:11 am    Post subject: Campaign 1897 Reply with quote

17 November 2005

Dear Sudhir,

What exactly do you have in mind?

I had stressed that training and education at all levels are the only steps that can improve the quality of the structures that are being built around us. As educational institutions are the ones that are best suited for this purpose, I had suggested they be involved in such activity.

As far as government officials are concerned, Prof. A.S. Arya was here recently to tell them his version of what would happen if a mega event were to occur here.

Regards,
Indrajit Barua.

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 skjain[AT]iit... wrote :
Quote:
Dear Prof ARC and Mr Barua:

The suggestion to focus on Guwahati is most welcome. I
am sure that no
SEFI member will stay behind in contributing what they
can. I have the
following thoughts:

a) It is a huge prblem and cannot be solved in one day.
Let us start
small keeping in mind our limited resources both in
terms of manpower
and financial and focus on what we can achieve by our
own efforts.
b) Telling others what to do, does not usually work. On
the other hand
if some activity is started by the champions, others
usually join.
c) While I am reasonably confident that our colleagues
at IITG will be
happy to assist (I can talk to them), I am not in
favour of telling them
to organize events and workshops. Someone like Mr Barua
can proceed with
organizing a small  or moderate event with whatever
support is available
to him, and we can ask IITG and others to come forward
and contribute.

From NICEE, we will be happy to support any efforts in
Guwahati in
terms of literature and materials etc.

Best regards,

Sudhir Jain
IIT Kanpur

ibarua[AT]deg... wrote:

17 November 2005

Improving construction practices will perhaps be of
more help in obtaining eq. resistant structures. For
this, the only answers are training and education;
there can never be enough of these. Our arhitects,
engineers and draftsmen not only have to know how to
design eq. resistant structures, but also have to know
how to detail their drawings adequately so that the
architects, engineers and artisans in the field can
translate these drawings into truly quake resistant
structures.

For this purpose, the IITs and the other engineering
colleges should organise workshops, starting with
proper designing and detailing of those vital elements
called columns, shear walls and bracing systems.

Similarly those in the field can be trained to manage
and implement quality assurance programmes.

Any suggestions from SEFI?

Indrajit Barua.
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 prao5555[AT]yah... wrote :

Quote:
Dear Prof. ARC,

it is heartening to note your determination to
campaign for seismic resistant structures, and for
facing the next possible disaster in India.  The
frequency of disasters seems to increase very year,
particularly earthquake disasters.  The earthquake in
Japan the other day is perhaps not just one more of
them.

I am inclined to agree with you that earthquakes of
intensity more than that defined for zone V may be
possible in the NE regions.  It may help to reduce the
reduction factor from 5 to 3 in such cases even for
SMRF.

Regards,

P Rao
Uni College of Engineering
Hyderabad

one
click.



Posted via Email
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skjain.iitk
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:02 am    Post subject: Campaign 1897 Reply with quote

Dear Indrajit:

My point is that if we want to make an intervention in Guwahati (over
and above what is already happening there), let us start from those
actions for which we do not depend on others (e.g., IITG). Once we
initiate the actions on our own, it is easier to enrol others (such as
faculty colleagues of IITG).

Regards,

Sudhir

ibarua[AT]deg... wrote:

Quote:
17 November 2005

Dear Sudhir,

What exactly do you have in mind?

I had stressed that training and education at all levels are the only steps that can improve the quality of the structures that are being built around us. As educational institutions are the ones that are best suited for this purpose, I had suggested they be involved in such activity.

As far as government officials are concerned, Prof. A.S. Arya was here recently to tell them his version of what would happen if a mega event were to occur here.

Regards,
Indrajit Barua.

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 skjain[AT]iit... wrote :

Quote:
Dear Prof ARC and Mr Barua:

The suggestion to focus on Guwahati is most welcome. I
am sure that no
SEFI member will stay behind in contributing what they
can. I have the
following thoughts:

a) It is a huge prblem and cannot be solved in one day.
Let us start
small keeping in mind our limited resources both in
terms of manpower
and financial and focus on what we can achieve by our
own efforts.
b) Telling others what to do, does not usually work. On
the other hand
if some activity is started by the champions, others
usually join.
c) While I am reasonably confident that our colleagues
at IITG will be
happy to assist (I can talk to them), I am not in
favour of telling them
to organize events and workshops. Someone like Mr Barua
can proceed with
organizing a small  or moderate event with whatever
support is available
to him, and we can ask IITG and others to come forward
and contribute.

From NICEE, we will be happy to support any efforts in
Guwahati in
terms of literature and materials etc.

Best regards,

Sudhir Jain
IIT Kanpur

ibarua[AT]deg... wrote:

Quote:
17 November 2005

Improving construction practices will perhaps be of

more help in obtaining eq. resistant structures. For
this, the only answers are training and education;
there can never be enough of these. Our arhitects,
engineers and draftsmen not only have to know how to
design eq. resistant structures, but also have to know
how to detail their drawings adequately so that the
architects, engineers and artisans in the field can
translate these drawings into truly quake resistant
structures.

Quote:
For this purpose, the IITs and the other engineering

colleges should organise workshops, starting with
proper designing and detailing of those vital elements
called columns, shear walls and bracing systems.

Quote:
Similarly those in the field can be trained to manage

and implement quality assurance programmes.

Quote:
Any suggestions from SEFI?

Indrajit Barua.
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 prao5555[AT]yah... wrote :

Quote:
Dear Prof. ARC,

it is heartening to note your determination to
campaign for seismic resistant structures, and for
facing the next possible disaster in India.  The
frequency of disasters seems to increase very year,
particularly earthquake disasters.  The earthquake in
Japan the other day is perhaps not just one more of
them.

I am inclined to agree with you that earthquakes of
intensity more than that defined for zone V may be
possible in the NE regions.  It may help to reduce the
reduction factor from 5 to 3 in such cases even for
SMRF.

Regards,

P Rao
Uni College of Engineering
Hyderabad

one
click.








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prof.arc
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 703

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Campaign 1897 Reply with quote

Second Message from ARC:
I have noted the comments sent so far. I appreciate that a large group is
equally concerned. The cafeteria approach is good if it can achieve the
goal.
My goal is that very very important public buildings should be retrofitted
to start with. Among the list I had proposed in my first message, the first
should be public [civil & defence] hospitals and the living quarters of the
hospital staff if they live in sarkari accommodation. I added others like
Governor, CM, Chief Secretary, etc to make them allot funds. I definitely
plan to write to them after getting some input from Mr. Inderjit.
It is easy to get funds if scientists ask for prediction projects {like the
radon measurement in HP or fancy microzonation like in Jabalpur} or for
putting instruments in the ocean floor. Also, easy if the funds are required
for Delhi {example - water projects and some UNDP projects}. How to get
funds committed for retrofitting in the epicentral region and particularly
in Guwahati and Shillong and that too "tatkal" ? The funds must come from
the open-ended kitty used for disaster relief. This activity is also a
relief in one sense.
I have first hand experience of the power of "andolan" in the case of Tehri
Dam. It was spearheaded by INTACH and some others including scientists who
did not want the Dam to be built. I am always 'pro' 100% for building any
type of structure in severe earthquake zone and I clashed with them at
several forums. In order to get the approval, we have to agree to
extra-ordinary earthquake intensity levels. In one sense, it made the design
very safe. [I also sincerely hope that the construction followed design
specifications]. (This will always be a problem with civil engineering - a
design on paper may be wonderful but who can certify about the finished
product).
We should therefore, do a campaign to build safe structures for the first
responders. The media and if necessary the judiciary through PIL may have to
be approached if the Central and State Govt continue to ignore this threat.
Enough of committees but action should start. May be I am not informed and
some work has already been initiated. It will be a good idea if 'sefians'
post information on structures that are retrofitted in 1897 region.
I also worry about some major infrastructure - the Brahmaputra Bridge and a
Dam located in Meghalaya. They were supposed to be designed according to the
code. Do we feel that assumed intensity as adequate now ?
In practice, even now, we design for a acceleration level [at zero period]
of only 0.036g assuming
fondly that the factors of 2 and a further factor of 5 for ductility will
hold good in the service life.
Let us debate what should be for retro-fitting - I propose a value of 0.10g,
an increase of nearly three times for buildings; for the Bridge and the Dam,
a check of failure at 0.32g. These numbers are more to provoke you as a
starting bid !!
One thing is reasonably certain - nothing can be done about private
apartment buildings as owners of the flats will never come to any agreement.
They will hope the disaster would not strike during their lifetime or if it
occurs blame the engineers for it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:39 am    Post subject: Campaign 1897 Reply with quote

Dear Prof. ARC / Sefians,

Thanks for initiating a complex design related issues pertaining to
retrofitting of structures.  I think the acceleartion figures coined by you
requires considerable amount of deliberrations before we can use them. The
expenditure involved in retrofitting the flock of 'important' building and
bridges is going to be quite significant and therefore the design
acceleration coefficients and the philosophy to be adopted should be decided
after some deliberrations.

SEFI is fortunate to have some of the experts (Prof. ARC, Prof SKJ, Prof.
RNI ...etc.) in the field of earthquake engineering  who are very active in
the forum and and I would feel that with their support, it would be better
to have a base paper giving guidelines on retrofitting strategies as a
starting point. (I ofcourse presume that such documents do not exist and I
would be delighted if any one proves me wrong).

Some of the issues that needs to be kept in mind are :

a) An existing structure needs to be retrofitted for the 'remaining /
balance life' of the structure and not for its 'full design life'. As an
example, if a structure which is already 50 years old needs to be
retrofitted, we need not take the earthquake forces assuming a return period
of 100 years as the structure, even otherwise may not survive that long.
This aspect can reduce the design acceleration for retrofitting
significantly.

b) For Bridges, I think the only way to make the existing major bridges safe
would be i) By improving the restraining features at the bearing level to
prevent dislodgement of deck and ii) By installing special hardware devices
(like anchored elastomeric bearings, dampers, STU's ...etc.) to change the
time period / damping characteristics of the structure. The knowledge base
on the correct application of damping devices is still very limited in our
country. Since these hardwares are mostly imported and in absence of any
specific guidelines, they are often accepted as black boxes.  There is
therefore an urgent need to formulate codes and guidelines on the acceptance
criterias of the damping devices.

Thanks

Alok Bhowmick

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